Episode 128 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week the panel is made up of Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Brad Williams (@williamsba) and Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy).

SitePoint Podcast的第128集现已发布！ 本周的座谈会由Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )组成。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #128: My Least Favorite 10 Year Old (MP3, 38:18, 36.8MB)

  SitePoint播客＃128：我最不喜欢的10岁(MP3，38:18，36.8MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

• Anti Web Analytics

  反网页分析

• IE 6 is 10 Years Old

  IE 6已有10年历史了

• Are Media Queries The Answer To The Fold?

  媒体查询是对折的答案吗？

• New Approaches To Login Forms

  登录表单的新方法

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/128.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/128中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

• Brad: CodeCademy

  布拉德： CodeCademy

• Patrick: Gary Vaynerchuck Retires From Daily Wine Videos

  帕特里克： Gary Vaynerchuck从每日葡萄酒视频中退休

• Louis: Why Must You Laugh At My Back End

  路易： 为什么你必须嘲笑我的后端

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to yet another episode of the SitePoint Podcast, we’re back with a panel show this week, three out of four ain’t bad, we’ve got Brad and Patrick with us today, hi guys.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客的又一集，本周我们将举行一次小组讨论，四分之三还不错，今天我们有布拉德和帕特里克，大家好。

Brad: Hey, hey, hey!

布拉德：嘿，嘿，嘿！

Patrick: Hey, Louis!

帕特里克：嘿，路易斯！

Louis: So Stephan couldn’t make it today but we will power on ahead nonetheless.

路易斯：所以斯蒂芬今天无法做到，但我们仍将继续前进。

Patrick: Absolutely.

帕特里克：绝对。

Brad: Let’s do it.

布拉德：开始吧。

Louis: How you guys been doing?

路易斯：你们过得怎么样？

Patrick: Irene came for us but we’re still here.

帕特里克：艾琳(Erene)来找我们，但我们仍然在这里。

Brad: We survived.

布拉德：我们幸存了下来。

Louis: (Laughs) Good to hear, good to hear.

路易斯：(笑)很高兴听到，很高兴听到。

Patrick: Yeah, the hurricane actually hit the — where I live, I mean it was hilarious because I was down in Atlanta for a conference but I was tracking the storm, my family is here as well, they had evacuated. And as it got closer the center line of the storm was actually literally right where I live (laughs), so that’s how I would introduce myself to people at the conference, “Where are you from?” “Well, if you pull up the storm tracker that’s where I live!” (Laughter).

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，飓风确实袭击了我居住的地方，我的意思是这很有趣，因为我去亚特兰大参加会议，但我正在跟踪风暴，我的家人也在这里，他们已经撤离了。 随着距离越来越近，风暴的中心线实际上正好位于我住的地方(笑)，所以这就是我向参加会议的人介绍自己的方式：“你来自哪里？” “好吧，如果您拉起风暴追踪器，那就是我的住所！” (笑声)。

Louis: I’m right in the eye.

路易斯：我说得对。

Patrick: I’m not kidding, I actually pulled it up on my laptop for some people just to point it out because, yeah, it hit us right on probably at its strongest, but, we are thankfully a little off the water, so we are in good shape here, some others were not as fortunate, but we’re okay here and I came back to a house, which I’m happy about.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我不是在开玩笑，实际上我是将它拉到笔记本电脑上的，以便指出一些原因，是的，它可能在最强的地方击中了我们，但是，值得庆幸的是，我们离水不远了，所以我们在这里状况良好，其他一些人并不幸运，但我们在这里还可以，我回到了一所房子，对此我感到很高兴。

Louis: Yeah, you would be.

路易斯：是的，你会的。

Patrick: (Laughs) And it fizzled out by the time it reached Brad, right, you didn’t get that much.

帕特里克：(笑)当到达布拉德时，它消失了，对，你没有那么多。

Brad: Yeah, it wasn’t — it was still a hurricane but certainly much less severe at that point, so just a really strong storm, but no damage so we made it.

布拉德：是的，不是—那仍然是飓风，但那时候肯定没有那么严重，所以只是一场真正的强风暴，但没有造成破坏，所以我们做到了。

Patrick: WordCamp Philly is still on.

帕特里克： WordCamp Philly仍在运行。

Brad: Still on.

布拉德：还在。

Patrick: Excellent.

帕特里克：太好了。

Louis: Awesome. Well, let’s kick right into the new from the past few weeks, has anyone got a story they want to kick us off with?

路易斯：太好了。 好吧，让我们从过去几周开始进行全新尝试，有没有人想让我们开始一个故事？

Brad: Yeah, I’ll kick it off, we actually have somewhat of a birthday to celebrate, and it’s a pretty big milestone, I’m sure —

布拉德：是的，我要揭开序幕，实际上我们有一个生日要庆祝，这是一个相当大的里程碑，我敢肯定-

Louis: Oh, boy.

路易斯：哦，男孩。

Brad: Well, I’m sure some people might celebrate, some may not, but the birthday is — the big birthday boy is Internet Explorer 6, everyone’s favorite browser turned the big 10 on August 27th, it was released August 27, 2001 if you can believe that. You always hear IE6, you know how we work with it all the time and everybody hates it, blah, blah, blah, but when you put it in perspective of it actually came out 10 years ago it really kind of makes you feel old I guess (laughs); has it really been 10 years? Sure enough it has.

布拉德：嗯，我敢肯定有些人会庆祝，有些人可能不会庆祝，但是生日是-大生日男孩是Internet Explorer 6，每个人都喜欢的浏览器在8月27日变成了大浏览器10，它于2001年8月27日发布，如果你可以相信。 您总是会听到IE6，您知道我们一直都在使用IE6，每个人都讨厌它，等等，等等，但是当您将它放在10年前问世的时候，它确实会让您感觉很老猜(笑)； 真的已经十年了吗？ 果然有。

Patrick: Yeah, and the last few years haven’t been kind to IE6, and I think that kind of jades our memories maybe, and when I say last few years I mean maybe the last five, six.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，最近几年对IE6并不友好，我认为这种玉器可能是我们的记忆，当我说过去几年时，我的意思是说最后五，六个。

Louis: (Laughs) The last nine!

路易斯：(笑)最后九个！

Patrick: No, not the last nine, see that’s the jaded memory I’m talking about.

帕特里克(Patrick)：不，不是最后九个，这就是我在谈论的疲惫的记忆。

Brad: Starting in 2002.

布拉德：从2002年开始。

Patrick: Yeah, IE6 is kind of like that friend from school who was real fun, right, at the start, knew him for a while, he was a great guy, you liked hanging out with him but he never changed, you know, he never grew and got more mature as you did. So, he’s still the same guy and you don’t want to hang out with him anymore (laughter).

帕特里克：是的，IE6就像是一个很有趣的学校朋友，对，一开始就认识他一段时间，他是一个好人，你喜欢和他一起出去玩，但他从未改变，你知道，他从来没有像你一样成长并变得更加成熟。 因此，他仍然是同一个人，您再也不想和他一起闲逛了(笑声)。

Louis: That’s a good analogy, I like that.

路易斯：这是一个很好的类比，我喜欢。

Brad: Yeah, and actually Craig Buckler has a great article or blog post on SitePoint about it, and he’s quick to point that out as well, like it’s certainly easy to bash and I’ve done my fair share of it, especially on this podcast, but looking back when it actually first came out it really was a revolutionary browser, it introduced some great things like DOM level 1, XML API, some CSS improvements, and it was a sleek and fast interface back then just like Craig says, you know, looking at it now obviously it’s clunky and horrible, but 10 years ago the Web’s evolved quite a bit. So, when it first came out it was the browser, 95% of the Web users were using Internet Explorer in some version, so it certainly helped shape the Internet and especially from the web development standpoint and from the user standpoint I guess, so I think we should pay our respects for Internet Explorer.

布拉德：是的，实际上克雷格·巴克勒(Craig Buckler)在SitePoint上有一篇很棒的文章或博客文章，他也很快指出了这一点，比如说bash肯定很容易，我也做了很多，尤其是在这方面播客，但回首它最初是一个革命性的浏览器，它引入了一些很棒的功能，例如DOM级别1，XML API，一些CSS改进，并且它是一个时尚而快速的界面，就像Craig所说的那样，您知道，现在看它显然笨拙而可怕，但是10年前Web发展了很多。 因此，当它首次出现在浏览器中时，有95％的Web用户正在使用某个版本的Internet Explorer，因此它肯定有助于塑造Internet，尤其是从Web开发的角度以及从用户的角度来看，我想，所以我认为我们应该对Internet Explorer表示敬意。

Louis: Absolutely. It’s still — I have to say, though, it’s still my least favorite 10 year old.

路易斯：绝对。 它仍然是-我不得不说，它仍然是我最不喜欢的10岁。

Brad: Are there any other 10 year old browsers? I was trying to think if there’s any that, outside of being upgraded, are there any other actively used browsers that have gotten anywhere near the 10 year mark, I can’t think of any.

布拉德：还有其他使用10年的浏览器吗？ 我试图考虑的是，除了升级之外，还有没有其他任何一些正在使用的浏览器已经接近10年大关了，我想不到。

Louis: I don’t think so. Do we know when Firefox 1 was released?

路易斯：我不这么认为。 我们知道Firefox 1何时发布吗？

Brad: Not off the top of my head but I’m sure we can pull it up.

布拉德：不在我头顶上，但是我敢肯定我们可以把它拉起来。

Patrick: No one’s going to celebrate that.

帕特里克：没人会庆祝。

Louis: Firefox 1.0 was released on November 9, 2004, so not for another three years we’ll be seeing the 10th birthday of Mozilla Firefox.

路易斯： Firefox 1.0于2004年11月9日发布，因此再过三年，我们将看到Mozilla Firefox十岁。

Brad: And that’s, to put it in perspective, that’s if people are still using Firefox 1 (laughter), so we’re not looking at the current version because there’s obviously newer versions of Internet Explorer, so if in another three years there’s still some Firefox 1.0 users then, um.

布拉德：这就是说，如果人们仍在使用Firefox 1(众笑)，那么我们就不在关注当前版本，因为显然有较新的Internet Explorer版本，因此如果再过三年，那么，一些Firefox 1.0用户。

Louis: You guys got a lot of Firefox 1.0 in your analytics?

路易斯：你们的分析中有很多Firefox 1.0？

Brad: (Laughs) I can’t say I’ve seen that in a long time. I’m sure it’s still out there, though.

布拉德：(笑)我不能说我已经看了很长时间了。 我确定它仍然在那里。

Patrick: Yeah, speaking of active use, I was just pulling up the stat counter, Global Stats, the stat counter in Global Stats only go as far back as July 2008, but at that time, July 2008, IE6 was at 28.36% of global browser market share period, second at that point just to ie7 at 40.08. Now, roughly, what is it, three years, yeah, three years later just about, ie8, or IE6 I should say, is at 3.09% in August of 2011, so a drop of 25% and now of course it’s no longer second, but, yeah, it’s just three years it was still over a quarter of the market.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，说到积极使用，我只是拉起统计计数器(Global Stats)，Global Stats中的统计计数器只能追溯到2008年7月，但那时，IE6的使用率是2008年7月的28.36％全球浏览器市场份额的时间段，仅次于ie7的40.08。 现在，大概是三年了，是的，三年后，即2011年8月，IE8，即IE6，应该是3.09％，所以下降了25％，现在当然不再是第二了但是，是的，仅仅三年，它仍然占据了市场四分之一以上。

Brad: I didn’t realize it was that high back in 2008, so yeah, over a quarter of the market three years ago, that’s mindboggling. I’m just glad it’s about to dip under 3%, and hopefully this is the last birthday we’ll be celebrating for IE6.

布拉德：我没有意识到这是在2008年这么高的价格，所以，是的，三年前，在四分之一的市场中，这令人难以置信。 我很高兴它即将跌到3％以下，希望这是我们为IE6庆祝的最后一个生日。

Patrick: Long live IE6, it’s good for our podcast (laughter).

帕特里克： IE6万岁，这对我们的播客(笑声)很有帮助。

Louis: Yeah, we’ve really latched on to this story.

路易斯：是的，我们确实抓住了这个故事。

Patrick: We milked IE6 (laughter), we should be celebrating like nobody else.

帕特里克：我们挤了IE6(笑声)，我们应该像其他人一样庆祝。

Louis: For sure. So talking about statistics, and I guess analytics indirectly, Patrick, you had a story about this?

路易斯：当然可以。 因此，谈到统计数据，我想间接地涉及分析，Patrick，您有一个故事吗？

Patrick: Yeah, so TechCrunch’s MG Siegler wrote a story provocatively titled, as is the TechCrunch style, “If You Site Compete or Alexa for Anything Besides Making Fun of Them, You’re a Moron,” Compete being Compete.com. And basically he was visiting Quora and there was a question about how TechCrunch’s traffic was affected by there recent drastic redesign that launched in July of this year, just last month. And people were pointing to stats from Alexa and Compete to try to get an idea of where the traffic was, and I guess both services, Compete is cited in this post, showed that they had dropped substantially. MG says that if you flip them around so that it’s actually recent to the past and it shows a gain that’s more accurate, that they are having their best month ever, that last year was their best month ever, that they’re going to break that again this month, and so on and so forth. So, to them their traffic is up, up, up, up, up, yet Compete and I guess Alexa as well just show down, down, down. So, I guess his point here is that they can’t be trusted for accurate measurement, and I think we’ve kind of known that about Alexa for a while, I guess Compete is maybe I thought a little better, but still I guess not that good. So my question is, is it possible to have an accurate analytics measurement tool site, whatever you want to term it, for the general Web? I mean obviously there’s ComScore, but ComScore requires a little bit of money, and they don’t simply measure everyone and make it publicly available like Compete and Alexa do. Can these numbers ever be paid attention to? Will there ever be accurate numbers or is it always going to be about the directly measured analytics?

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，因此TechCrunch的MG Siegler撰写了一个具有挑衅性的故事，就像TechCrunch的风格一样：“如果您在竞争对手中脱颖而出，或者通过Alexa取笑，那么您就是白痴，” Compete.com就是竞争对手 。 基本上，他正在访问Quora，并且有一个问题是，TechCrunch的流量如何受到今年7月(上个月)启动的近期重新设计的影响。 人们指的是Alexa和Compete的统计数据，以了解流量的来源，我猜这两个服务都被Compete引用，表明它们的流量已经大幅下降。 MG说，如果您将它们翻转过来，这样实际上是过去的事情，并且显示出更准确的收益，即他们有史以来最好的月份，去年是有史以来最好的月份，他们将会破产这个月又一次，依此类推。 因此，对他们来说，他们的流量正在上升，上升，上升，上升，上升，但是Compete和我猜想Alexa也会表现出下降，下降，下降。 所以，我想他的意思是，他们无法信任他们进行准确的测量，而且我认为一段时间以来我们对Alexa有所了解，我猜Compete也许我觉得好一点，但我仍然认为没那么好。 所以我的问题是，对于普通的Web，是否有可能有一个准确的分析测量工具站点(无论您要使用什么术语)？ 我的意思是，显然有ComScore，但是ComScore需要一点钱，而且他们不仅仅评估每个人，而且像Compete和Alexa一样公开提供它。 这些数字能引起注意吗？ 会不会有准确的数字，或者将始终与直接测量的分析有关？

Louis: That’s a really good question, it’s kind of interesting. So, I’m not terribly familiar with how Alexa and Compete gather their statistics, are you guys familiar with what their — how they go about getting this stuff? I would have guessed that it’s data from ISP’s maybe, but —

路易斯：这是一个非常好的问题，这很有趣。 因此，我对Alexa和Compete如何收集他们的统计数据并不十分熟悉，你们是否熟悉他们的工作-他们如何获得这些东西？ 我猜想也许是ISP的数据，但是-

Patrick: Yeah, I think I just got the Compete information, now I’m just looking for Alexa.

帕特里克：是的，我想我刚刚获得了比赛信息，现在我正在寻找Alexa。

Louis: Okay, how do they do it?

路易斯：好的，他们是怎么做到的？

Brad: I’m on TechCrunch about it.

布拉德：我在TechCrunch上。

Louis: Alexa calculates its rankings through data collects from toolbar users, that’s ridiculous.

路易斯： Alexa通过从工具栏用户收集的数据来计算其排名，这很荒谬。

Patrick: It was like that previously, I know that people who install the toolbar, so that’s why a lot of SEO’s, at least back in the day, would have the Alexa toolbar installed. I never did that and if you search you’ll find tons of complaints and comments about it in forums and in the SitePoint forums talking about how if you just get some people to install the Alexa toolbar you can supposedly drive your numbers up, so I guess that’s still the case there. With Compete they say — there’s an answer on their site to the question “How does Compete estimate site traffic?” “Compete’s experts in the fields of mathematics and the fields of data sciences have developed a proprietary method to aggregate, normalize and project the data to estimated U.S. Internet activity based on the daily Web usage of more than two million members in the Compete community, Compete estimates total traffic, rank and other statistics in the top one million sites on the Web for use by consumers. More detail and granular metric studies are done for clients on any relevant site.” So I guess there are a panel of two million people, and then they use that two million to estimate U.S. traffic as a whole, not unlike the Nielsen TV ratings where a small number of people have the boxes at home and then they use that to forecast what the country watches on TV as a whole.

帕特里克(Patrick)：就像以前一样，我知道安装工具栏的人，因此这就是为什么至少在今天很多SEO都安装了Alexa工具栏的原因。 我从没做过，如果您进行搜索，您会在论坛和SitePoint论坛中找到大量关于它的投诉和评论，谈论如果您只是让一些人来安装Alexa工具栏，那么应该可以提高您的电话号码，所以我猜猜那里还是那样。 他们说，有了Compete，他们的网站上就会回答“ Compete如何估算网站流量？”这一问题。 “竞争的数学和数据科学领域的专家已经开发了一种专有的方法，可以根据Compete社区中超过200万会员的每日Web使用量，对数据进行汇总，规范化和投影到估计的美国Internet活动。估计供消费者使用的Web上前一百万个站点中的总流量，排名和其他统计信息。 在任何相关站点上都为客户进行了更详细的细化度量研究。” 因此，我猜想有一个200万人组成的小组，然后他们使用那200万人来估计整个美国的流量，这与尼尔森电视台的收视率不同，在尼尔森电视台的收视率中，一小部分人在家中装箱预测整个国家在电视上收看的节目。

Louis: So I have to say first like this strikes me as absolutely ludicrous, like how can a company make money doing this? First of all, okay, I know a lot of Internet users, do you know anyone who’s like a Compete member and uses the Compete toolbar?

路易斯：所以我首先要说的是，这样的举动绝对使我感到不可思议，就像公司如何赚钱呢？ 首先，好吧，我认识很多Internet用户，您认识任何一个像Compete成员并且使用Compete工具栏的人吗？

Patrick: I don’t know anyone specifically that knows — that is part of this member panel. Then again I also don’t know anybody off the top of my head that uses an Alexa bar.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我不知道有谁知道这是该成员面板的一部分。 再说一次，我也不认识任何使用Alexa栏的人。

Brad: No.

布拉德：不。

Louis: So they could be fictitious, first of all.

路易斯：所以他们可以是虚构的，首先。

Patrick: They could be made up, sure (laughs). That’s assuming worst faith.

帕特里克：他们可以编造，当然(笑)。 这是假设最坏的信念。

Louis: Yeah, I’m very skeptical to start with. But, okay, let’s go beyond that, though, let’s take it a step further. They’re saying two million people, how many people are on the Internet at the moment?

路易斯：是的，我非常怀疑。 但是，好的，让我们超越这一点，让我们更进一步。 他们说的是200万人，目前有多少人在上网？

Patrick: Well, they say Facebook has 750 million members they just crossed, so that’s a good starting point, then add to that.

帕特里克：嗯，他们说Facebook刚刚有7.5亿成员加入，所以这是一个很好的起点，然后再添加。

Louis: Right. So, what, safe estimate maybe two billion people on the Internet, which means their sample size is .1%, and it’s only in the U.S., see that’s the thing.

路易斯：对。 因此，据安全估计，互联网上可能有20亿人，这意味着他们的样本量是.1％，而且仅在美国，这就是事实。

Patrick: So what would be the error rate?

帕特里克：那么错误率是多少？

Louis: Obviously their stuff would be skewed, because if they’re analyzing U.S. usage, as a fraction of the total Internet, U.S. traffic has been declining in percentage-wise for years now, so you’re going to see this — you know, they’re ignoring the rest of the world in terms of Internet traffic, and that’s where the majority of Internet traffic is now.

路易斯：显然他们的资料会歪斜，因为如果他们正在分析美国的使用情况(占整个互联网的一部分)，多年来美国的访问量一直在以百分比的形式下降，所以您将看到这一点–您知道，他们忽略了互联网流量方面的世界其他地区，而这就是现在的大多数互联网流量所在。

Patrick: Right. It’s difficult to — yeah, obviously difficult to forecast. I mean what is the error rate on 1% (laughs), you know, I don’t remember this, it’s got to be a wide margin.

帕特里克：对。 很难，是的，显然很难预测。 我的意思是1％的错误率是多少(笑)，您知道，我不记得了，这必须有很大的余地。

Brad: Like your said Patrick, the only way I think you could really have even more accurate stats, or I should accurate stats in this case, without actually installing something on the site to do the tracking, if you’re trying to do it through a third party, would be at the ISP level, I mean that’s really the only way you’re going to get anything that’s more than just an estimate or a guess, just like you said, .1% is what they’re going off of, who knows how spread out that is. Is that techies, is that stay-at-home moms, is that carpenters, who knows what it is; I would hope it’s a good mix of everybody but that would be extremely hard to do.

布拉德：就像您所说的帕特里克一样，我认为您的确可以拥有更准确的统计信息，或者在这种情况下，我应该准确统计信息，如果您要这样做，则无需在站点上实际安装任何东西来进行跟踪通过第三方，这将是ISP级别的，我的意思是，这实际上是您获得不仅仅是估计或猜测的任何东西的唯一方法，就像您所说的那样，.1％是他们的意图当然，谁知道那是如何传播。 是技术专家，还是全职妈妈，是木匠，谁知道这是什么？ 我希望每个人都能很好地融合在一起，但这将非常困难。

Patrick: Yeah, if they — I mean if they — and let’s keep in mind it’s U.S. traffic only, right, so it’s not global traffic, but still, if they got the biggest ISP’s in the country together they could do something. Siegler mentions in his post that Quantcast is a little better but they still have their own issues, and off the top of my head I’m not familiar with what those issues are. But one of the reasons Quantcast may be better is because it does allow you to directly measure your stats and include it on your website to report publicly. Now, of course, that can be abused in certain ways, but I would tend to believe that they would be more accurate than just estimating.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，如果他们-我的意思是如果他们-并且我们要记住，这只是美国的流量，对，所以这不是全球流量，但是，即使他们得到了该国最大的ISP，他们仍然可以做些什么。 齐格勒(Siegler)在他的文章中提到Quantcast稍微好一点，但是它们仍然有自己的问题，而且我不知道这些问题是什么。 但是Quantcast可能会更好的原因之一是因为它确实允许您直接测量统计信息并将其包含在您的网站上以进行公开报告。 现在，当然可以以某些方式滥用它，但是我倾向于认为它们比估计更准确。

Brad: We’ve talked about this before, it’s hard to get accurate stats even when you’re installing tracking code on your site, I mean matching up stats between Google Analytics and some other tracking package, they never add up ever, you know, there’s always differences, and that’s when you’re actually putting the code on your site to do the tracking, so really can you even have accurate analytics when you want them on your own site.

布拉德：我们之前已经讨论过这一点，即使您在网站上安装跟踪代码也很难获得准确的统计信息，我的意思是说Google Analytics(分析)与其他一些跟踪软件包之间的统计信息相匹配，它们永远不会相加，您知道，总会有差异，那就是您实际上是将代码放在网站上进行跟踪时，因此，如果您希望将代码放在自己的网站上，那么实际上甚至可以进行准确的分析。

Patrick: Yeah, and one of the issues I guess that Quantcast has, at least in this article that he linked to from January of 2010, is that they found cases where — or this is Comcast CMO at the time speaking, that “Where the Quantcast beacons,” her words, “fire up seven times from a single page.” So, that would imply to me that it might count one page as seven, but maybe they’ve got that sorted out. But the fact remains that these public forecasting tools it doesn’t seem they can be trusted, but the bad thing is that people do rely on them, like I’ve had people who sell advertising tell me that these numbers do mean some things to certain people, so, you’d like to fully disregard them but I don’t know if you can. I know SitePoint has long cited the Alexa rank of being a top 1000 website on their about page, and I would assume in their media kits, for a very long time, so I mean if you have a good number it’s worth citing it I suppose.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我猜Quantcast至少在他从2010年1月起链接的这篇文章中，其中一个问题是，他们发现了一些案例，或者说，这就是当时的Comcast CMO，“她说：“ ​​Quantcast信标在一页上发射了7次。” 因此，对我而言，这意味着一页可能算作七页，但也许他们已经整理好了。 但是事实仍然是，这些公共预测工具似乎并不值得信赖，但是坏的是人们确实依赖它们，就像我曾经出售广告的人告诉我，这些数字确实意味着某些人，因此，您想完全忽略他们，但我不知道您是否可以。 我知道SitePoint长期以来一直在其About页面上将Alexa列为排名前1000的网站，并且我会在他们的媒体工具包中假设很长时间，因此，我想如果您有足够的数字值得我引用它。

Louis: Yeah. It’s interesting. I mean obviously I think it makes more sense, I understand people don’t want to disclose their traffic information all the time, but I think it does make more sense to specifically talk about your traffic information if you’re trying to either sell your site to advertisers or straight up sell your site.

路易斯：是的。 这真有趣。 我的意思是，显然我认为这更有意义，我了解人们不希望一直公开他们的路况信息，但是如果您想出售自己的路况信息，那么我想特别谈论一下路况信息确实更有意义网站向广告商出售或直接出售您的网站。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Louis: It just seems like it’s a lot more sensible to talk about real numbers than about sort of this weird rank that takes into account this tiny subset of very geographically restricted traffic and tries to extrapolate some sort of rank on that.

路易斯：谈论实数似乎比谈论这种奇怪的等级要明智得多，这种奇怪的等级考虑到了地理位置受限制的流量的这一小部分，并试图推断出某种等级。

Brad: Unless it says you’re getting twice as much traffic as you really are (laughter).

布拉德(Brad)：除非它说您获得的访问量是实际的两倍(笑)。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Brad: Then in that case you probably would want to use it.

布拉德：那么在这种情况下，您可能会想要使用它。

Patrick: Then that would be bad for the advertisers.

帕特里克：那对广告商来说是不好的。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Patrick: I think what might happen, this is just speculating, is that some people might look at it as impartial, right, and the numbers that you get from the webmaster or the ad seller for that website or that publisher is their numbers internally that they’re sharing with you, and there might be a level of bias there where there’s this presumptive non-bias with a third party service, but it could just bias in a different way, in an inaccurate way either up or down. So, I guess the bottom line is there’s just not anything out there right now that can be, you know, everything has to be vetted, there’s just not a service out there from a third party that you can wholeheartedly trust at this time. There are estimates and there are certain sites that may seem better than others, but at the end of the day the best way to figure out the traffic is just to buy an ad, I guess, for 30 days and see how much you get.

帕特里克：我认为可能会发生，这只是在推测，有人认为它是公正，正确的，而您从网站站长或该网站的广告销售商或发布商那里获得的数字是他们内部的数字，他们正在与您共享，并且可能会存在一定程度的偏见，在这种情况下，第三方服务可能会存在这种非偏见，但它可能只是以不同的方式偏向于偏上或偏下。 因此，我想最重要的是，现在没有什么可以进行的所有内容，您知道，现在还没有第三方可以提供的服务，您可以全心全意地信任它。 据估计，某些网站似乎比其他网站要好，但归根结底，弄清流量的最佳方法是买广告，我想大概是30天，然后看看能得到多少。

Louis: (Laughs) I guess that’s true. I mean on Flippa.com where I’m developing now we have a due diligence page for website auctions, and some of the data that we include in there is Compete and Alexa data just because people want to see it when they’re considering buying a website, so we aggregate it there, but I guess it is worth thinking about or at least providing information for people about how seriously can you take some of this information.

路易斯：(笑)我想是真的。 我的意思是在现在正在开发的Flippa.com上，我们有一个网站拍卖的尽职调查页面，其中包含的某些数据是Compete和Alexa数据，仅是因为人们希望在考虑购买时看到它一个网站，因此我们将其汇总到此处，但是我认为值得考虑或至少为人们提供有关您可以多么认真地对待其中一些信息的信息。

Patrick: Yeah, you can put a little question mark icon there, click on that! What does it tell you; don’t trust this ad at all! No, I’m just kidding.

帕特里克：是的，您可以在此处放一个问号图标，然后单击它！ 它告诉你什么？ 完全不要相信这个广告！ 不，我只是在开玩笑。

Louis: Well, at that point you may as well not be showing it, right, I mean.

路易斯：好吧，那时候您可能还不展示它，对，我的意思是。

Patrick: Yeah, no, I don’t know, some say it’s useful for trending.

帕特里克：是的，不，我不知道，有人说这对趋势很有用。

Louis: And I think possibly comparatively as well, like if you’re comparing two different websites and you want to see which one of them is the most trafficked then you can compare their respective Alexa ranks, but maybe it’s, I don’t know, if there are people out there who have experience like TechCrunch have described where you’ve got your analytics telling you one thing, and your Alexa rank or your Compete rank telling you something completely different we’d love to hear from you in the comments, and we’ll bring it up in a further show if there’s a lot of examples of people having the same experience. &nbsp One of the things I wanted to talk about this week was a blog post on Boag World by Paul Boag which got a little bit of buzz in the Twitter sphere, at least the people I follow, and in the web design arena, the title of the post is “Are Media Queries the Answer to the Fold?” So this ties into a couple of sort of perennial design questions, and one more recent technology. So the fold, if you’ve ever had to interact with the marketing manager if you’re a designer you’ll know that this concept of the fold in a web page is the bit that appears above the — or the bit that you don’t have to scroll to see, and everyone thinks that the most important content on your website has to be above the fold because otherwise people will never see it because they don’t scroll. So this blog post was a description of some techniques that Paul’s, the agency Paul works for, Headscape, has used to sort of adapt websites based on CSS media queries so that if you’re viewing the web page in a very short, I’m not talking about the width of the website but the actual height, so if the height is very low, like if you’ve got a screen that doesn’t have a lot of vertical resolution, the layout will adapt so that the most important information will still be above the fold, but if you’ve got more space then it will make the, you know, the feature spot bigger with bigger images because it knows it’s got more room. So this is really interesting because there’s been all this talk about responsive web design, and you know I’ve talked about it with Jeremy Keith when he was on the show, and it’s really a hot topic in web design now, and seeing as it matures people are starting to use it for different purposes.

路易斯：我想也可能会比较，例如，如果您要比较两个不同的网站，并且想查看其中哪个网站的访问量最大，那么可以比较各自的Alexa排名，但是也许，我不知道，如果那里有像TechCrunch这样的经验的人描述了您的分析告诉您什么的地方，而Alexa等级或您的竞争对手的等级告诉了您一些完全不同的事情，我们很乐意在评论中听到您的意见，如果有很多具有相同经验的人的例子，我们将在进一步的展示中提出。 ＆nbsp我本周想谈的一件事是Paul Boag在Boag World上发表的一篇博客文章，在Twitter领域(至少是我关注的人)以及在Web设计领域中的标题引起了一些关注。帖子的标题是“媒体是否对折的答案有疑问？” 因此，这与多年生的设计问题和最新技术联系在一起。 因此，如果您是设计师，则必须与行销经理互动，否则您会知道网页上的折页概念就是出现在折页上方的部分，或者您不知道的部分不必滚动即可查看，每个人都认为您网站上最重要的内容必须突出，因为否则人们不会滚动就永远看不到它。 因此，本博文描述了Paul的代理机构Headscape曾经使用的一些技术，这些技术根据CSS媒体查询对适应性网站进行了分类，因此，如果您在很短的时间内浏览网页，我会我不是在谈论网站的宽度，而是在谈论实际的高度，因此，如果高度非常低(例如，如果您的屏幕的垂直分辨率不高)，则布局将适应最重要的信息仍将摆在首位，但是，如果您有更多空间，它将使功能区更大，图像更大，因为它知道空间更大。 所以这真的很有趣，因为已经有很多关于响应式网页设计的话题了，而且您知道我在展览中与Jeremy Keith谈论过这个话题，这确实是Web设计中的一个热门话题，成熟的人们开始将其用于不同目的。

Patrick: Yeah, I like how Paul doesn’t simply disregard the idea of the fold, you know, while he talks about the issue of designers saying there is no fold, there is no fold, I think it’s fairly clear there is, and at least if we want to change the name of it there’s an area of the page that is more likely to receive attention, right, it is the first area that comes up (laughter), you know, that — it’s good to have some statistics that he cites here from Jacob Nielson, but, I think it’s a reasonable conclusion to come to either way, so I think this is great. And I think that the propagation of additional devices, especially for web browsing, has led to a revolution in billable hours for web designers (laughter), because now you don’t just get one design, you get to design four or five different layouts! No, I’m just kidding. It makes perfect sense and this is a great implementation of the idea, so I think this is definitely a great thing and we’re going to see this more and more, especially you know mobile is already huge but it’s only going to continue to get bigger.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我喜欢Paul不仅仅忽略折叠的想法，当他谈论设计师说没有折叠，没有折叠的问题时，我认为这很明显，并且至少如果我们想更改它的名称，页面上的某个区域更可能引起关注，是的，这是第一个出现的区域(笑声)，您知道，拥有一些统计数据是一件好事他从雅各布·尼尔森(Jacob Nielson)那里引用，但是，我认为这是一个合理的结论，所以我认为这很棒。 而且我认为，其他设备的传播，尤其是用于Web浏览的设备的传播，已经导致Web设计师的收费时间发生了革命(笑声)，因为现在您不仅得到一个设计，而且要设计四个或五个不同的布局！ 不，我只是在开玩笑。 完全有道理，这是该想法的绝佳实现，因此，我认为这绝对是一件很了不起的事情，我们将越来越多地看到这一点，尤其是您知道移动电话已经非常庞大，但它只会继续得到发展大。

Brad: Yeah, it’s really — I mean it’s, going back to what you said, Patrick, you know as developers and designers now a lot of us are building multiple templates, you know you have your regular site then you have your mobile, you know, your mobile theme or template design; a lot of people are going to iPads and getting Tablet designs, so I honestly could see this as being, you know, responsive design, and I’ve heard a lot about it too in the last year or two, it’s certainly one of the hot topics, like you said. I mean I can see this as essentially replacing the need for that mobile development, I mean if it says, hey, you’re on a screen that’s x-by-x and it’s a mobile device and your design automatically fits and works into that and readjusts as it needs to for that size, then that is your mobile site, you know, there’s no additional separate site or separate design layer needed, that becomes your mobile site. So I mean I think this is a great thing, I’m really excited to see a lot more websites utilize this.

布拉德：是的，的确是–我的意思是，回到您所说的，帕特里克，您知道作为开发人员和设计师，我们中的许多人正在构建多个模板，您知道自己有常规网站，然后有了手机，知道您的手机主题或模板设计； 很多人正在使用iPad并获得平板电脑的设计，所以老实说，我可以将其视为响应式设计，而且在过去的一两年中，我也听说过很多，这肯定是其中之一。热门话题，就像你说的那样。 我的意思是，我可以认为这基本上替代了对移动开发的需求，如果它说，嘿，您所用的屏幕是x-by-x，它是移动设备，并且您的设计会自动适应并在其中工作并根据需要调整大小，然后就是您的移动网站，您知道，不需要其他单独的网站或单独的设计层即可成为您的移动网站。 因此，我的意思是我认为这是一件了不起的事情，我很高兴看到更多的网站使用此功能。

Patrick: That’s a great point actually; maybe it won’t be more billable hours, maybe I’m just a cynical fool. I think that’s a good point that you won’t have to develop mobile sites as much, and I could definitely see, Brad, opening the closet where you keep your designers and yelling, “What did I tell you guys, responsive design!” “Responsive design, do it!”

帕特里克(Patrick)：其实这很重要； 也许不会花费更多的时间，也许我只是一个愤世嫉俗的傻瓜。 我认为这是个好点，您不必开发太多的移动网站，我绝对可以看到，布拉德打开壁橱，您可以在那里留住设计师并大喊：“我对您说的是，响应式设计！” “响应式设计，做到这一点！”

Brad: I’m going to check this on my iPhone. It actually, um, going back to we talked about this being extremely popular now and a buzzword, it is, because actually even in WordPress 3.3 one of the ideas that they’re working on is making the dashboard responsive so that you could login to a WordPress dashboard from any device and it will still be usable, whether it’s something as small as an iPhone or something as big as a 50 inch screen, you know it would adapt to the size of that screen and make it usable, so it would — you know they have all these different apps for WordPress right now, but essentially I mean I’m assuming they will still have those apps but it would make it where you wouldn’t have to use one of those apps, you could just login right from your phone.

布拉德：我要在我的iPhone上检查一下。 实际上，嗯，回到我们之前，我们谈到了它现在非常流行，并且是一个流行词，因为实际上，即使在WordPress 3.3中，他们正在研究的想法之一也是使仪表板具有响应性，以便您可以登录到任何设备上的WordPress仪表板，它仍然可以使用，无论它是小到iPhone还是大到50英寸的屏幕，您都知道它会适应该屏幕的大小并使其可用，因此-您知道他们现在拥有适用于WordPress的所有这些不同的应用程序，但是基本上我的意思是我假设他们仍然会拥有这些应用程序，但是它将使您无需使用其中一个应用程序，就可以登录直接从您的手机。

Louis: Yeah, that’s a great idea. There’s a lot of really fantastic responsive designs, I don’t know if you guys saw this, I interviewed Chris Coyier from CSS-Tricks on the show last week, and if you pop open the redesign of CSS-Tricks in the browser and resize it a little bit it’s really amazing the amount of flexibility that the design has as you resize the browser.

路易斯：是的，这是个好主意。 有很多非常出色的响应式设计，我不知道你们是否看到了，上周我在CSS-Tricks上采访了Chris Coyier，如果您在浏览器中打开CSS-Tricks的重新设计并调整大小调整浏览器大小时，设计所具有的灵活性真是令人称奇。

Patrick: Holy Mackerel, it floats!

帕特里克：鲭鱼，它漂浮了！

Louis: You know, so the search box is in a different position and then you get this one-column narrow design, it’s really, really impressive the kind of stuff you can do.

路易斯：您知道，因此搜索框处于不同的位置，然后您得到了这种单列狭窄的设计，这确实使您印象深刻。

Brad: It is slick.

布拉德：光滑。

Louis: But, what I was interested in, in Paul’s article, was that he takes it a step further and it’s not just about the width of the device but also about the height, so, you know, there’s a lot of different laptops out there, especially your widescreen PC laptops that have a decent amount of horizontal space but not a lot of vertical space, and that, for example, Netbook’s are another good example of that where a lot of times you’ve got over 1000 pixels wide, so that’s plenty of room to show most website layouts but very little horizontal space, and if you wanted to try and put that key information on the page without scrolling then you can play around with media queries for that.

路易斯：但是，我对Paul的文章感兴趣的是，他将其进一步发展了，这不仅关乎设备的宽度，而且关乎高度，所以，你知道有很多不同的笔记本电脑在那里，尤其是您的宽屏PC笔记本电脑具有相当大的水平空间，但没有很多垂直空间，例如，上网本是另一个很好的例子，在很多情况下，您的笔记本电脑都超过1000像素，因此，有足够的空间来显示大多数网站布局，但很少有水平空间，如果您想尝试在不滚动的情况下将关键信息放在页面上，则可以进行媒体查询。

Patrick: Wow, this CSS-Tricks design is ridiculous.

帕特里克：哇，这个CSS-Tricks设计太荒谬了。

Louis: I know it’s insane isn’t it? (Laughs)

路易斯：我知道这是疯了吗？ (笑)

Brad: It’s really good, that’s great, it’s a great example of it, I mean because it looks like there’s about three different layouts if I saw right, it may be four.

布拉德：真的很好，太好了，这是一个很好的例子，我的意思是因为如果我看对的话，看起来好像有大约三种不同的布局，可能是四种。

Louis: I think there’s three main ones, so there’s one with the search bar in the top left, and then a medium one with the search bar in the right, oh no, there’s four because then the dates of the posts are either popped out on the left.

路易斯：我想主要有三个，所以有一个在搜索栏的左上角，然后是一个在搜索栏在右的中间，哦，不，有四个，因为帖子的日期要么弹出在左边。

Patrick: An exponential number of differences (laughs), no, I don’t know; every time I move something changes.

帕特里克(Patrick)：数不胜数的差异(笑)，不，我不知道。 每次我移动时，都会发生变化。

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Patrick: And I assume this is Chris at the bottom here when you mouse over his head, I don’t know if you caught that in the footer, and he pops up drinking an adult beverage I believe that is.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我想这是克里斯，当您将鼠标悬停在他的头上时，它在底部，我不知道您是否将它抓住在页脚中，他弹出来喝成人饮料，我相信是。

Louis: Yeah, I did see that (laughs), yep. There’s a lot of cool Easter eggs in this design, I’ve been looking at it for the whole week since I interviewed him like, wow, this thing’s awesome!

路易斯：是的，我确实看到了(笑)，是的。 这个设计中有很多很酷的复活节彩蛋，自从我采访他以来，我一直在看它整个星期，就像，哇，这东西真棒！

Patrick: His time on page per visit has to be pretty good.

帕特里克(Patrick)：他每次访问的页面停留时间必须非常好。

Louis: (Laughs) You’d imagine so, yeah.

路易斯：(笑)你会想象是的，是的。

Brad: I was just playing with his tricks.

布拉德：我只是在玩他的把戏。

Louis: Like dragging the browser size around. The other thing that caught my eye this past week was an article on Smashing Magazine by Luke Wroblewski, and I know I’m going to pronounce that wrong, but he must be used to it; he goes by @LukeW on Twitter. So it’s about the UI of form design, I know this is a topic that a lot of people might think has been done to death, but this article really does bring in some interesting points, and it’s specifically about the login form. And the login form is something that when you’re designing an application or website you might tend to overlook, you know you figure you’ve got a username field, the password field and a link to remember your password, that’s all you need to know, but he cites some statistics from user interface engineering analysis, and they did analysis of a major online retail and found that 45% of all customers had multiple registrations in the system, 160,000 people request their password by email everyday, and 75% of the people who did request their password by email never completed the purchase they started once the requested their password.

路易斯：就像拖动浏览器大小一样。 上周引起我注意的另一件事是Luke Wroblewski在Smashing Magazine上的一篇文章，我知道我会说错了，但是他必须习惯它。 他在Twitter上经过@LukeW 。 因此，它与表单设计的UI有关，我知道这是一个很多人可能认为已经死了的话题，但是本文确实带来了一些有趣的观点，尤其是关于登录表单。 登录表单是一种在设计应用程序或网站时可能会忽略的东西，您知道自己已经有了一个用户名字段，密码字段和一个用于记住密码的链接，这就是您所需要的知道，但是他引用了用户界面工程分析的一些统计数据，他们对一家主要的在线零售进行了分析，发现45％的所有客户在系统中进行了多次注册，每天有16万人通过电子邮件请求密码，而75％的用户确实通过电子邮件请求密码的人在完成输入密码后从未完成购买。

Patrick: Wow.

帕特里克：哇。

Louis: So there’s definitely reason to be paying attention to this. And then he gives a bunch of really cool examples of ways that people who’ve played around with interesting login forms. So one of them is from Gowalla, have you guys seen this particular form?

路易斯：所以绝对有理由要注意这一点。 然后，他给出了很多非常酷的例子，说明了人们使用有趣的登录表单的方式。 所以其中之一是来自戈瓦拉(Gowalla) ，你们看到过这种特殊形式吗？

Patrick: I have now.

帕特里克：我现在有。

Brad: Not till now, yeah, I’m FourSquare.

布拉德：直到现在，是的，我是FourSquare。

Louis: Yeah, I’m a FourSquare user as well. But on Gowalla, so if you try and signup with a username and an incorrect password it’ll show you an error message, “Oops, you entered an invalid username and password, try again,” but then below that it shows you the avatar of the username you entered, it says “You’re trying to login to Gowalla as,” whatever, “as Louis,” and then it’s got a button, “This isn’t me” or “I don’t know my password,” so it gives you that feedback of like, oh wait, was this — am I using the wrong username or did I just get my password wrong, so that’s an interesting one. Another example is from Quora he gives where when you start typing in an email address once you tab to the next field it will say “No account found for this email address” if it’s not an email that exists on that site. So just this kind of feedback that can help people avoid those mistakes, because it happens to me, you know you’ve four or five different email addresses and then some places ask you for a username rather than an email address, so when you get to the site you just try one, and you might even have the right password but because you’ve got the wrong email address you can’t login.

路易斯：是的，我也是FourSquare的用户。 但是在Gowalla上，如果您尝试使用用户名和错误的密码进行注册，则会显示一条错误消息，“糟糕，您输入了无效的用户名和密码，然后重试。”，然后在下方显示了化身输入的用户名中，显示“您正在尝试以以下身份登录Gowalla”，无论是“以路易斯身份”，然后出现一个按钮，“这不是我”或“我不知道我的密码” ”，这样就会给您一些反馈，例如，哦，是吗–是我使用了错误的用户名还是我输入的密码错误，所以这很有趣。 另一个示例来自Quora，他提供了一个选项卡，您可以在其中输入以下内容：当您跳至下一个字段时开始输入电子邮件地址，如果该网站上没有该电子邮件地址，则会显示“找不到该电子邮件地址的帐户”。 因此，这种反馈可以帮助人们避免这些错误，因为它发生在我身上，您知道您有四个或五个不同的电子邮件地址，然后某些地方要求您输入用户名而不是电子邮件地址，因此当您收到到您尝试的站点，您甚至可能输入正确的密码，但是由于输入的电子邮件地址错误，您无法登录。

Brad: Yeah, that’s a good point with the email and the username, like I would really love to see usernames just go away altogether, I mean most sites are doing that now, typically it says username/email or just email altogether, I mean email is unique, so I think trying to remember usernames, and sure, typically everyone has a username that they can remember, but sometimes you hit a site and your username is taken so then you got to go to your backup, or maybe your backup backup, and then once you start doing that you’re going to easily forget what your username is, so I absolutely love the sites that just stick with email, it’s simple, it’s easy, and I would bet if they did — you know, if they compared sites that forced you to use your username versus an email they would probably see more people having login issues on the sites requiring the username versus email.

布拉德：是的，这对电子邮件和用户名来说是个好主意，就像我真的很希望看到用户名完全消失一样，我的意思是大多数网站现在都这样做了，通常它说用户名/电子邮件或只是电子邮件，我的意思是电子邮件是唯一的，因此我想尝试记住用户名，并且可以肯定的是，通常每个人都有一个他们可以记住的用户名，但是有时您访问了某个站点并且用户名已被占用，因此您必须进行备份，或者可能是备份备份，然后一旦开始执行操作，您将很容易忘记您的用户名，因此，我绝对喜欢那些只保留电子邮件的网站，它很简单，很容易，我敢打赌，如果他们这样做了–您知道，如果他们比较了强迫您使用用户名和电子邮件的网站，他们可能会看到更多的人在要求用户名和电子邮件的网站上出现登录问题。

Patrick: I’m not sure how I feel about this because on one hand it is definitely helpful, it’s definitely helpful, but, I feel like I need to point out the creeper factor here, or, I don’t know, maybe a slight privacy issue where this may be good on some sites, but I’m not sure that it makes sense to have a searchable list of your user bases names in the username field or email field, or whatever, for a lot of sites. And speaking of the email, the validation of whether or not this account exists with an email, I don’t know; if there’s an opportunity there to give away email addresses that people would not otherwise have out there, and also a lot of accounts that get “hacked” are hacked through the email address associated with the account. And I’m not saying that’s the website’s fault, like I’m not saying that’s Quora’s fault, but, I’m just saying that it happens; it happens in the music industry especially where people will trade clips or trade music songs or other things via email accounts and they won’t practice good email security, so people hack into their email account and then they get access to other things. And if you can confirm what email address someone has on a server simply by typing it in and not even logging in, I don’t know, I just think there’s a potential here for abuse and maybe at the cost of making things easier it’s not always a wise decision.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我不确定我对此有何看法，因为一方面它肯定有帮助，也绝对有帮助，但是，我觉得我需要在这里指出爬行因素，或者，我不知道，也许轻微的隐私问题，这在某些站点上可能是不错的选择，但是我不确定在很多站点的用户名字段或电子邮件字段或其他内容中是​​否包含可搜索的用户基础名称列表是否有意义。 说到电子邮件，我不知道该帐户是否与电子邮件一起存在。 如果有机会提供人们原本不会有的电子邮件地址，那么也有很多被“黑客攻击”的帐户也通过与该帐户关联的电子邮件地址被黑客入侵。 我并不是说这是网站的错，就像我不是在说Quora的错，而是在说它发生了。 它发生在音乐行业中，尤其是人们将通过电子邮件帐户交易剪辑或交易音乐歌曲或其他东西，而他们将无法实施良好的电子邮件安全性，因此人们侵入他们的电子邮件帐户，然后他们便可以访问其他事物。 而且，如果您仅通过输入而不是登录就可以确认某人在服务器上拥有的电子邮件地址，我不知道，我只是认为这里存在滥用的可能性，并且可能是以使事情变得更容易为代价的，永远是一个明智的决定。

Louis: Yeah, I totally agree with that, I think there are security implications for a lot of these things in terms of privacy, the example he gives of having like a searchable list of usernames, that works for a service that is public, but for services that aren’t public I can totally understand you wouldn’t want to do that.

路易斯：是的，我完全同意这一点，我认为，从隐私角度来讲，很多事情都涉及安全性，例如，他举了一个具有可搜索用户名列表的示例，该示例适用于公共服务，但是对于非公开的服务，我可以完全理解您不想这样做。

Patrick: If you saw Facebook, because a lot of people have private Facebook accounts, I mean obviously you could then make it permissions based; only public Facebook accounts would show up, but then that sort of defeats the purpose.

帕特里克(Patrick)：如果您看到Facebook，因为很多人都有私人的Facebook帐户，我的意思是显然可以将其设置为基于权限； 只有公开的Facebook帐户才会出现，但是那样就失败了。

Louis: It does kind of defeat the purpose. And the other thing is the fact that you have two things to guess makes brute force hacking attacks exponentially more difficult; if you have to figure out what someone’s email address is and what password they have and you’re not getting feedback on which of the two you entered was incorrect, then the brute force will take you, you know, the power of two longer than if you get feedback; you try an email address and it just tells you, oh, yeah, there’s definitely a user with that email address and it’s this person but that’s the wrong password —

路易斯：这确实有损于目的。 另一件事是，您有两件事需要猜测，这使得暴力破解攻击变得更加困难。 if you have to figure out what someone's email address is and what password they have and you're not getting feedback on which of the two you entered was incorrect, then the brute force will take you, you know, the power of two longer than if you get feedback; you try an email address and it just tells you, oh, yeah, there's definitely a user with that email address and it's this person but that's the wrong password —

Patrick: So try again! (Laughs)

Patrick: So try again! (笑)

Louis: — then it makes the — yeah, you know, I mean you’re getting that feedback. So, providing that feedback to users makes things easier for users, but you’re also providing that feedback to any kind of malicious software or any kind of attacker.

Louis: — then it makes the — yeah, you know, I mean you're getting that feedback. So, providing that feedback to users makes things easier for users, but you're also providing that feedback to any kind of malicious software or any kind of attacker.

Patrick: Yeah. I think that’s a good point. And I don’t know that I necessarily want to curb the evolution of login forms, but, that’s the first thing I thought of when I did see this.

帕特里克：是的。 I think that's a good point. And I don't know that I necessarily want to curb the evolution of login forms, but, that's the first thing I thought of when I did see this.

Louis: Yeah, I mean there’s a lot of considerations that need to go into this kind of thing, but I think it’s definitely worth having a read through this article, there’s a ton of stuff he talks about, the sort of single sign-in, like sign-in with Twitter, sign-in with Facebook, and different ways that that can be made more useful. He’s talking about the issue, for example, of you know a place can have four or five sign-in with this service and you don’t remember which one you used when you created your account. So if I — the first time I signed in with Facebook and now I sign-in with Twitter, all of a sudden I’m creating a new account because the website or application has no way of knowing that that Twitter account is the same person as this Facebook account, so that can be a concern there as well. There’s a good discussion of all these different current trends in login form design and great ways of approaching it, and it’s a really well thought out piece, Luke has always got really great insights into this kind of stuff so it’s really highly recommended, although, of course, as we’ve mentioned there are other concerns so you can’t just sort of take this stuff as a given and run with it, I mean think about what’s right for your users and your site and your security.

Louis: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of considerations that need to go into this kind of thing, but I think it's definitely worth having a read through this article, there's a ton of stuff he talks about, the sort of single sign-in, like sign-in with Twitter, sign-in with Facebook, and different ways that that can be made more useful. He's talking about the issue, for example, of you know a place can have four or five sign-in with this service and you don't remember which one you used when you created your account. So if I — the first time I signed in with Facebook and now I sign-in with Twitter, all of a sudden I'm creating a new account because the website or application has no way of knowing that that Twitter account is the same person as this Facebook account, so that can be a concern there as well. There's a good discussion of all these different current trends in login form design and great ways of approaching it, and it's a really well thought out piece, Luke has always got really great insights into this kind of stuff so it's really highly recommended, although, of course, as we've mentioned there are other concerns so you can't just sort of take this stuff as a given and run with it, I mean think about what's right for your users and your site and your security.

Patrick: AKA, Patrick’s the wet blanket (singsong). (Laughter)

Patrick: AKA, Patrick's the wet blanket (singsong). (笑声)

Louis: No, I mean I agree with this, and if there’s anything — like these kinds of issues do matter and you know the past month has been rife with discussion on the Internet about Google Plus’ real name policy.

Louis: No, I mean I agree with this, and if there's anything — like these kinds of issues do matter and you know the past month has been rife with discussion on the Internet about Google Plus' real name policy.

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Louis: And that’s kind of an example of that, it’s this, you know, this trying to take a stance on what information is public, what information is private, what we require from our users, and that kind of thing has to be really carefully considered.

Louis: And that's kind of an example of that, it's this, you know, this trying to take a stance on what information is public, what information is private, what we require from our users, and that kind of thing has to be really carefully considered.

Patrick: Is it time for spotlights?

Patrick: Is it time for spotlights?

Louis: It is time for spotlights.

Louis: It is time for spotlights.

Patrick: I’ll go first, my spotlight is an article at ReadWriteWeb by Marshall Kirkpatrick titled “Trailblazer Gary Vaynerchuck Retires from Daily Wine Videos.” Gary, who I interviewed on the SitePoint Podcast I think January of 2010, he is retiring from Daily Wine Videos, he’s done it for over five years now, and first with Wine Library TV, then with The Daily Grape, which just signed off on episode 89, and he’s hanging it up for the Daily Wine Videos. He says he’ll still produce wine content, just not on a regular schedule, and he posted a final farewell video and Marshall covers it, and yeah, I think it’s inevitable, good things come to an end and obviously Gary’s got other things going on, but he’s definitely led the way I would say when it comes to video content and producing a video show, I think he’s a great example to follow as far as consistency and quality of programming, so best of luck, Gary.

Patrick: I'll go first, my spotlight is an article at ReadWriteWeb by Marshall Kirkpatrick titled “Trailblazer Gary Vaynerchuck Retires from Daily Wine Videos.” Gary, who I interviewed on the SitePoint Podcast I think January of 2010, he is retiring from Daily Wine Videos, he's done it for over five years now, and first with Wine Library TV, then with The Daily Grape, which just signed off on episode 89, and he's hanging it up for the Daily Wine Videos. He says he'll still produce wine content, just not on a regular schedule, and he posted a final farewell video and Marshall covers it, and yeah, I think it's inevitable, good things come to an end and obviously Gary's got other things going on, but he's definitely led the way I would say when it comes to video content and producing a video show, I think he's a great example to follow as far as consistency and quality of programming, so best of luck, Gary.

Louis: Absolutely. I remember watching the Wine Library TV videos back in the — I think it was in the sort of low-hundred episode numbers. And just the amount of energy and work that went into producing these things everyday is amazing, and that he’s done it for this long is amazing.

路易斯：绝对。 I remember watching the Wine Library TV videos back in the — I think it was in the sort of low-hundred episode numbers. And just the amount of energy and work that went into producing these things everyday is amazing, and that he's done it for this long is amazing.

Patrick: Yeah, and Gary is — he’s legit, he gets a lot of snarky comments here and there, as you do when you reach a certain level of audience (laughter), but, he’s an example I cite a lot in my presentations; I just gave a conference talk in Atlanta and, you know, because he’s legit community. I mean when he got started building that show he would just answer wine questions on Twitter, search for questions, just to get his name out there and then help people, and he’d do the same and post on wine forums. So, you know, everyone has to start somewhere and he did, and most people might not reach this level of success, but he’s a testimonial to the fact that if you try some people will succeed, and he has. Brad, what do you got?

Patrick: Yeah, and Gary is — he's legit, he gets a lot of snarky comments here and there, as you do when you reach a certain level of audience (laughter), but, he's an example I cite a lot in my presentations; I just gave a conference talk in Atlanta and, you know, because he's legit community. I mean when he got started building that show he would just answer wine questions on Twitter, search for questions, just to get his name out there and then help people, and he'd do the same and post on wine forums. So, you know, everyone has to start somewhere and he did, and most people might not reach this level of success, but he's a testimonial to the fact that if you try some people will succeed, and he has. Brad, what do you got?

Brad: I have a very cool site, it is called Codecademy.com and it’s Code, no A on the academy, Code c-a-d-e-m-y.com, and it’s a website developed by two developers, Ryan Bubinski and Zach Sims, and it’s actually an interactive way to learn a programming language, in this case the default test as they’re calling it, or course, is based around JavaScript. But it’s very — it’s a very unique way to learn coding and I wanted to share this, I actually found this on Reddit, so I’ll give credit where credit is due, not trying to steal anything from Reddit.

Brad: I have a very cool site, it is called Codecademy.com and it's Code, no A on the academy, Code cademy.com, and it's a website developed by two developers, Ryan Bubinski and Zach Sims, and it's actually an interactive way to learn a programming language, in this case the default test as they're calling it, or course, is based around JavaScript. But it's very — it's a very unique way to learn coding and I wanted to share this, I actually found this on Reddit, so I'll give credit where credit is due, not trying to steal anything from Reddit.

Louis: (Laughs) Sorry, man, credit to Reddit where credit to Reddit is due is —

Louis: (Laughs) Sorry, man, credit to Reddit where credit to Reddit is due is —

Patrick: Developers, developers, developers!

Patrick: Developers, developers, developers!

Louis: It’s great; you hit the site and the first thing it says is “Hey, let’s get to know each other,” type your name in quotations, and you type your name in quotations it says “Well done.” So the next thing you type your name in quotations.length and then you can determine the length of your name, and so it goes through these very — it starts very, very basic and works its way up to where you’re doing, you know, if L statements and learning about variables and comparing variables, but it does it in a very, very simple approach; I really think anyone can probably dive into this and walk away learning something from — especially if you don’t know JavaScript, obviously if you’re an expert you may not learn much, but to dive into it it’s a great site. So I’m really hoping and anxious and they’ve talked about bringing in some additional languages for tests and stuff, so it’d be great to really see this site expand, and it’s gotten a lot of press and a lot of great reviews and comments, so definitely check it out, you can even earn badges as you go through these courses.

Louis: It's great; you hit the site and the first thing it says is “Hey, let's get to know each other,” type your name in quotations, and you type your name in quotations it says “Well done.” So the next thing you type your name in quotations.length and then you can determine the length of your name, and so it goes through these very — it starts very, very basic and works its way up to where you're doing, you know, if L statements and learning about variables and comparing variables, but it does it in a very, very simple approach; I really think anyone can probably dive into this and walk away learning something from — especially if you don't know JavaScript, obviously if you're an expert you may not learn much, but to dive into it it's a great site. So I'm really hoping and anxious and they've talked about bringing in some additional languages for tests and stuff, so it'd be great to really see this site expand, and it's gotten a lot of press and a lot of great reviews and comments, so definitely check it out, you can even earn badges as you go through these courses.

Louis: It’s got badges I was just gonna say, I was waiting for you to finish so I could say there are badges!

Louis: It's got badges I was just gonna say, I was waiting for you to finish so I could say there are badges!

Brad: You see badges it’s like a — it’s like a challenge, it’s like I must have every badge even though it means nothing.

Brad: You see badges it's like a — it's like a challenge, it's like I must have every badge even though it means nothing.

Patrick: So, Kevin Yank who regular listeners know is a former co-host of the show is now over at Learnable leading the way, and this is a potential acquisition target I think (laughter). I was going to say, this is a pretty cool thing, so yeah, I think it’s following in that same sort of educational mindset, but I could see myself playing around with this and maybe even learning something, but I don’t know if I want to call myself a programmer so I might just stay away from this.

Patrick: So, Kevin Yank who regular listeners know is a former co-host of the show is now over at Learnable leading the way, and this is a potential acquisition target I think (laughter). I was going to say, this is a pretty cool thing, so yeah, I think it's following in that same sort of educational mindset, but I could see myself playing around with this and maybe even learning something, but I don't know if I want to call myself a programmer so I might just stay away from this.

Louis: Yeah, I think that’s probably safe, otherwise people will start asking you to fix things.

Louis: Yeah, I think that's probably safe, otherwise people will start asking you to fix things.

Patrick: (Laughs) Oh, gosh. No, I’ll just start not logging in to Skype or AIM and just kind of, you know, just staying offline.

Patrick: (Laughs) Oh, gosh. No, I'll just start not logging in to Skype or AIM and just kind of, you know, just staying offline.

Louis: Cool. My spotlight for this week is a blog post that I found on Hacker News, it’s from Pud’s Blog, which is this coder who writes this Tumblelog, and the name of the post that got all this attention is “Why Must You Laugh at my Backend.” And what it is basically is, you know, he’s built a couple of websites and applications and iPhone apps and all this stuff, and you know people will ask him, oh what do you code in or what do you use for the backend, and whenever he tells them he gets either blank stares or derision or laughs or whatever, so he’s written up this post just explaining all this —

路易斯：酷。 My spotlight for this week is a blog post that I found on Hacker News, it's from Pud's Blog, which is this coder who writes this Tumblelog, and the name of the post that got all this attention is “Why Must You Laugh at my Backend.” And what it is basically is, you know, he's built a couple of websites and applications and iPhone apps and all this stuff, and you know people will ask him, oh what do you code in or what do you use for the backend, and whenever he tells them he gets either blank stares or derision or laughs or whatever, so he's written up this post just explaining all this —

Patrick: I know what that feels like.

Patrick: I know what that feels like.

Louis: — all the stuff he uses. And it is pretty funny, like it’s stuff that obviously we work in the office here in PHP and a little bit of Ruby, Learnable is built largely in Ruby, so you know there’s a sort of a sense in the developer community that some languages are cool and other languages are uncool, and this guy has really like if you’d gone out and picked the most uncool thing. So, OS window server 2008, web server IIS, language CFML, which is Cold Fusion Markup Language, which I didn’t know still existed, but is apparently still going strong, and he talks about it sort of saying that Adobe’s price tag for the Cold Fusion server is very high but that there are open source alternatives that interpret CFML so you can run it for free. He’s using Zeround.com for a database, which is like I guess a scalable database service, EC2 for web hosting, which isn’t that surprising really. The one that got the most attention is synching which his servers all synch with Dropbox, so all of his servers are set up with Dropbox account, and when you set a file on one of the servers it just propagates to the other ones via Dropbox which I guess no one had considered doing, but it’s interesting and if it works, great.

Louis: — all the stuff he uses. And it is pretty funny, like it's stuff that obviously we work in the office here in PHP and a little bit of Ruby, Learnable is built largely in Ruby, so you know there's a sort of a sense in the developer community that some languages are cool and other languages are uncool, and this guy has really like if you'd gone out and picked the most uncool thing. So, OS window server 2008, web server IIS, language CFML, which is Cold Fusion Markup Language, which I didn't know still existed, but is apparently still going strong, and he talks about it sort of saying that Adobe's price tag for the Cold Fusion server is very high but that there are open source alternatives that interpret CFML so you can run it for free. He's using Zeround.com for a database, which is like I guess a scalable database service, EC2 for web hosting, which isn't that surprising really. The one that got the most attention is synching which his servers all synch with Dropbox, so all of his servers are set up with Dropbox account, and when you set a file on one of the servers it just propagates to the other ones via Dropbox which I guess no one had considered doing, but it's interesting and if it works, great.

Patrick: Yeah, Pud is Philip Kaplan who was behind a number of different companies, maybe most notably F’d Company and Ad Brite, so he’s kind of a veteran not only programmer but entrepreneur and investor and so on, so, yeah, I think this is funny to read the sort of solution for synching; I’m not anywhere technically near him but I do make some creative choices sometimes in the backend, and probably things I don’t want to tell other people, so I can appreciate this post on some level (laughs).

Patrick: Yeah, Pud is Philip Kaplan who was behind a number of different companies, maybe most notably F'd Company and Ad Brite, so he's kind of a veteran not only programmer but entrepreneur and investor and so on, so, yeah, I think this is funny to read the sort of solution for synching; I'm not anywhere technically near him but I do make some creative choices sometimes in the backend, and probably things I don't want to tell other people, so I can appreciate this post on some level (laughs).

Louis: I just think it’s legitimate to say, look, if you build something that works and you can sell it to people that’s really what matters, like all these — the choices of what technology you’re using to build it, it doesn’t really matter if you build something that works and that you’re happy working on.

Louis: I just think it's legitimate to say, look, if you build something that works and you can sell it to people that's really what matters, like all these — the choices of what technology you're using to build it, it doesn't really matter if you build something that works and that you're happy working on.

Patrick: Yeah, definitely.

帕特里克：是的，当然。

Brad: I say hats off to him, I mean I know a lot of people — I mean obviously I do a lot of work with open source, and the fact though with open source is a typical LAMP stack, but the majority of open source software out there will run on any type of operating system and web server, so they’re trying to be platform independent, so a lot of these, you know, WordPress, Drupal, they’ll all run on Windows just like on Linux, but if you ever meet someone that says, hey, I run WordPress on a Windows server then you know everyone just starts laughing and it’s just like, ah, you do what? It’s just like, hey, you know what, if it works for you then it works. So I mean hats off to this guy for kind of saying this is what I do and it works, so why change it.

Brad: I say hats off to him, I mean I know a lot of people — I mean obviously I do a lot of work with open source, and the fact though with open source is a typical LAMP stack, but the majority of open source software out there will run on any type of operating system and web server, so they're trying to be platform independent, so a lot of these, you know, WordPress, Drupal, they'll all run on Windows just like on Linux, but if you ever meet someone that says, hey, I run WordPress on a Windows server then you know everyone just starts laughing and it's just like, ah, you do what? It's just like, hey, you know what, if it works for you then it works. So I mean hats off to this guy for kind of saying this is what I do and it works, so why change it.

Patrick: Yeah, and I think Tempire in the comment thread for this article maybe says it very succinctly when he says, “Your stacks sucks only because subjectively it would be painful for me to work with. If it works for you and you enjoy working with it, then don’t let the man get you down, go forth and make cash,” (laughs).

Patrick: Yeah, and I think Tempire in the comment thread for this article maybe says it very succinctly when he says, “Your stacks sucks only because subjectively it would be painful for me to work with. If it works for you and you enjoy working with it, then don't let the man get you down, go forth and make cash,” (laughs).

Brad: That’s the force to live by right there.

Brad: That's the force to live by right there.

Louis: Yeah, I’ll buy that. If I went for a job interview and they told me this is what I had to work with I would just walk out (laughs), but if you’re happy working with it then awesome. Cool, so I guess that’s a wrap for this week.

Louis: Yeah, I'll buy that. If I went for a job interview and they told me this is what I had to work with I would just walk out (laughs), but if you're happy working with it then awesome. Cool, so I guess that's a wrap for this week.

Brad: I’m Brad Williams with Webdev Studios and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba. And if I can really quick I’d like to make a quick little plug, I’m one of the co-organizers of WordCamp Philadelphia this year, WordCamp Philly. And actually Patrick is going to be there speaking, so you’ll get to see him, and hopefully Stephen will make it too, so there’s a chance that three out of the four hosts will be at WordCamp Philly, so if you get the chance it’s November 5th and 6th in Philadelphia obviously, so check out 2011.philly.wordcamp.org if you’re interested.

Brad: I'm Brad Williams with Webdev Studios and you can find me on Twitter @williamsba . And if I can really quick I'd like to make a quick little plug, I'm one of the co-organizers of WordCamp Philadelphia this year, WordCamp Philly. And actually Patrick is going to be there speaking, so you'll get to see him, and hopefully Stephen will make it too, so there's a chance that three out of the four hosts will be at WordCamp Philly, so if you get the chance it's November 5th and 6th in Philadelphia obviously, so check out 2011.philly.wordcamp.org if you're interested.

Patrick: It’s a lot of dots (laughs).

Patrick: It's a lot of dots (laughs).

Brad: Or just search WordCamp Philly, you’ll find it.

Brad: Or just search WordCamp Philly, you'll find it.

Patrick: And I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network, iFroggy.com, I tweet @ifroggy, i-f-r-o-g-g-y.

Patrick: And I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network, iFroggy.com , I tweet @ifroggy , ifroggy.

Louis: And you can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s SitePoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and you can go to SitePoint.com/podcastto keep up with the podcast, all our new shows are posted there, you can leave comments, you can subscribe to get it automatically, of course you can also subscribe through iTunes. I’m Louis Simoneau; you can find me on Twitter @rssaddict. Thanks for listening!

Louis: And you can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom , that's SitePoint dotcom, and you can go to SitePoint.com/podcast to keep up with the podcast, all our new shows are posted there, you can leave comments, you can subscribe to get it automatically, of course you can also subscribe through iTunes. I'm Louis Simoneau; you can find me on Twitter @rssaddict . 谢谢收听！

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