SitePoint播客＃57：不是负面

Episode 57 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Patrick O’Keefe (@iFroggy), Brad Williams (@williamsba) and Kevin Yank (@sentience).

SitePoint Podcast的 第57集现已发布！本周的主持人是Patrick O'Keefe( @iFroggy )，Brad Williams( @williamsba )和Kevin Yank( @sentience )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

SitePoint Podcast #57: Not Negative (MP3, 60.1MB)

SitePoint Podcast＃57：不是负面 (MP3，60.1MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

The DiggBar is Dead
DiggBar已死
Comparative Browser Release Uptake Graphs
比较浏览器发布吸收图
WebKit 2
WebKit 2
Opera Mini Approved
Opera Mini批准
Twitter Advertising Platform
Twitter广告平台
Apple iPhone SDK 4.0 Terms
Apple iPhone SDK 4.0条款

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/57.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/57中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Patrick: Facebook Album of Kevin, a Man of Many Faces

帕特里克：脸谱人凯文(Facebook)的脸书
Brad: WordPress 3.0 Beta 1

布拉德： WordPress 3.0 Beta 1
Kevin: SitePoint Blogs redesign

凯文： SitePoint博客重新设计

显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)

Kevin: April 16th, 2010: Adobe’s CS5 thunder is stolen; Apple makes a few “business decisions”, and Twitter finally makes some money. I’m Kevin Yank and this is the SitePoint Podcast #57: Not Negative.

凯文： 2010年4月16日：Adobe的CS5雷声被盗；苹果做出了一些“业务决策”，而推特终于赚了一些钱。我是Kevin Yank，这是SitePoint播客＃57：不是负面。

Holy crap, we’ve got a lot of stories this week! Patrick, Brad are with me. Hi, guys.

废话，这周我们有很多故事！帕特里克，布拉德和我在一起。嗨，大家好。

Patrick: Hey, Kevin.

帕特里克：嘿，凯文。

Brad: Hello.

布拉德：你好。

Kevin: Hey. Stephan is away this week and I don’t know, like I miss Stephan but I think the fewer people we have possibly our better chances of getting through everything. It has been a crazy two weeks since our last news show. We’ve got a few stories here that have nothing to do with Apple and the iPhone but wow, web developers are— It’s all about the iPhone right now. I have to try and take a step back and think if I didn’t own an iPhone, would all of this stuff be as all encompassing as it seems to me to be. Patrick, you don’t have an iPhone.

凯文：嘿。斯蒂芬本周不在，我不知道，就像我想念斯蒂芬一样，但我认为我们拥有更少的机会来经历所有事情的机会越少。自从我们上一次新闻节目播出以来，已经疯狂了两个星期。我们这里有一些与Apple和iPhone没有任何关系的故事，但是哇，网络开发人员们–现在一切都与iPhone有关。我必须尝试退后一步，以为如果我不拥有iPhone，那么所有这些东西是否会像我看来那样具有全部的包容性。帕特里克，你没有iPhone。

Patrick: Yeah, I don’t and it’s funny because it’s not. I mean, really, the only thing – and this is TMI that I really don’t try to keep tabs on tech news for the most part, I see links in Twitter, that’s kind of how I find out about big stories, Twitter.

帕特里克：是的，我不是，这很有趣，因为不是。我的意思是，真的，唯一的一件事–这是TMI，我实际上绝大部分时间不尝试关注技术新闻，我在Twitter中看到链接，这就是我如何找到重要故事(Twitter)的方式。

And the main part I heard about it was when the guy who writes the Flashblog.com, Lee Brimelow, I guess is his name, he’s a platform evangelist and I found a link to his post.

我听到的主要部分是，写Flashblog.com的那个人Lee Brimelow，我想是他的名字，他是一个平台宣传人员，我找到了指向他帖子的链接。

Kevin: And he blew his top, didn’t he?

凯文：然后他吹了顶，不是吗？

Patrick: Right, but beyond that, any of the links that we had in the show notes that we talked about, I hadn’t read any of them before preparing for the show.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，但是除此之外，我们在节目中提到的所有链接都涉及到笔记，在准备演出之前，我没有阅读任何链接。

Kevin: We’ll come back to that one later in the show but just to get some variety here; let’s start with some stories that have nothing to do with the iPhone. The first one is something we’ve talked about before and that’s the DiggBar. Speaking of people blowing their tops, I had a bit of a rant on a previous SitePoint podcast about the DiggBar and how it was a terrible thing for the web and Brad, did you agree with me?

凯文：我们将在演出稍后再回到那个，但只是为了在这里有所作为。让我们从一些与iPhone无关的故事开始。第一个是我们之前讨论过的东西，那就是DiggBar。谈到人们的轰动，在以前有关DiggBar的SitePoint播客中，我有点恼火，这对Web和Brad来说是一件可怕的事情，您是否同意我的观点？

Brad: Yeah.

布拉德：是的

Patrick: I’m sure he did.

帕特里克：我确定他做到了。

Brad: I wasn’t a huge fun of the— I always agree with Kevin except for any iPad talk. (laugh) Yeah, I mean I wasn’t a big fan of the DiggBar. I’m not really a big fan of any of those bars. I really feel like you kind of lose control when you visit a website—

布拉德(Brad)：我可不是很有趣。除了iPad的话题外，我一直都同意凯文的观点。 (笑)是的，我是说我不是DiggBar的忠实拥护者。我并不是所有这些酒吧的忠实拥护者。我真的觉得您访问网站时有点失控，

Kevin: There’s been a few more of them pop up since the DiggBar, eh?

凯文：自DiggBar以来，还有更多其他的弹出窗口，对吧？

Brad: Yeah, there has and it feels like a trend at this point but the issue I have is a lot of times you don’t realize it because you’re clicking on a shortened URL through Twitter or whatever other site, Facebook, and then all of a sudden it pops up the DiggBar at the top or the HootSuite Bar, whatever it may be and a lot of times it’s a challenge just to get out of that bar so you can actually view the site in the way it’s supposed to be viewed. So that was always kinda my complaint.

布拉德(Brad)：是的，在这一点上确实有一种趋势，但是我遇到的问题是很多时候您没有意识到，因为您是通过Twitter或其他网站，Facebook和然后突然间，它弹出顶部的DiggBar或HootSuite Bar，无论它是什么，很多时候，要离开该Bar都是一个挑战，因此您实际上可以按应有的方式查看该网站被查看。因此，这始终是我的抱怨。

Kevin: So in the end we gave the DiggBar a pass because they took a step back and they removed it from the display of people who are not Digg users so you know where you just go alright, if you don’t like the DiggBar don’t use Digg and that solves the problem. But they’ve actually announced that they’re going to throw it away entirely now.

凯文：所以最后我们给了DiggBar一个通行证，因为他们退后了一步，并将其从不是Digg用户的人的显示器上删除了，所以，如果您不喜欢DiggBar don's，您就知道可以继续前进了不使用Digg即可解决问题。但是他们实际上已经宣布他们现在将完全丢弃它。

Patrick: Yeah, and this follows the, I guess, the resignation of their CEO, Jay Adelson and Kevin Rose being installed in that position. Basically, the next day after Adelson left he said we’re making two changes, no more DiggBar and all the domains that were previously banned are now unbanned. So I don’t know if those were important issues or not. You wouldn’t think the DiggBar would be that important of an issue internally but it did cause them a lot of negative press.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我想这是继首席执行官杰伊·阿德尔森(Jay Adelson)和凯文·罗斯(Kevin Rose)辞职后辞职的结果。基本上，在Adelson离开后的第二天，他说我们要进行两项更改，不再是DiggBar，并且以前禁止的所有域现在都被禁止。所以我不知道这些是否是重要问题。您不会认为DiggBar在内部对问题如此重要，但是确实引起了很多负面新闻。

Kevin: Mmm. Yeah.

凯文：嗯。是的

Brad: Doing research on this story, there wasn’t a lot of details that I found on why. Just really said yeah, you know we’re kind of just getting rid of it and that’s that but I couldn’t really find an answer why are they getting rid of it. I don’t know if you guys have had any luck figuring that out.

布拉德：在研究这个故事时，我没有发现很多细节。只是说真的，是的，您知道我们只是在摆脱它，仅此而已，但我找不到真正的答案，为什么他们要摆脱它。我不知道你们是否有运气可以弄清楚这一点。

Patrick: Well, Kevin Rose on the Digg blog says that “framing content with an iFrame is bad for the Internet. It causes confusion when bookmarking breaks with the iFrame busters and has no ability to communicate with the lower frame, i.e. if you browse away from the story, the old Digg count still persists. It’s an inconsistent and wonky user experience and I’m happy to say we are killing it when we launch the new Digg.” So that’s I guess the reasoning.

帕特里克(Patrick)：好吧，Digg博客上的凯文·罗斯(Kevin Rose)表示：“使用iFrame构架内容对互联网不利。当书签因iFrame破坏器而中断，并且无法与下框通信时，这会造成混乱，即，如果您从故事中移开，旧的Digg计数仍然存在。这是一种不一致且不稳定的用户体验，我很高兴地说，当我们推出新的Digg时，我们正在扼杀它。” 所以这就是我的推理。

Kevin: Kevin Rose is one of us. Kevin Rose cares about the Web being done the right way.

凯文：凯文·罗斯是我们中的一员。凯文·罗斯(Kevin Rose)关心以正确的方式完成网络。

Brad: Where was this voice of reason when they launched the DiggBar you know? I mean he’s the founder of the website. Did he have no say?

布拉德：当您推出DiggBar时，这种理性的声音在哪里？我的意思是他是网站的创始人。他没话说吗

Kevin: I kind of get the sense he was gritting his teeth through that whole process.

凯文：我觉得他在整个过程中都在咬牙。

Patrick: Yeah, I mean that’s one way or the other way is that it’s a nice PR move to draw people away from the CEO just left. I mean I don’t know that’s just a tech sites that report on this sort of stuff throwing the DiggBar out there. It’s maybe a way to draw attention away. That’s devil’s advocate stuff. It’s probably all innocent.

帕特里克：是的，我的意思是，这是一种不错的公关举措，可以吸引人们离开刚刚离开的首席执行官。我的意思是说，我不知道这只是一个技术网站，它会报告将DiggBar扔掉的这类事情。这也许是吸引注意力的一种方式。那是魔鬼的拥护者。可能都是无辜的。

Kevin: Yeah. I feel like the DiggBar, the benefit that it had for Digg only existed while they were showing it to non-Digg users. It was there to promote Digg and when they were forced to roll it back, okay, it may have kind of been a nice feature for their users but it was no longer really benefiting Digg as a business. So it’s something they can afford to cut loose at this point.

凯文：是的。我感觉像DiggBar，它对Digg的好处只有在他们向非Digg用户展示时才存在。它在那里是在推广Digg，当他们被迫回滚Digg时，好吧，对于他们的用户来说，它可能是一个不错的功能，但它实际上并没有真正使Digg受益。因此，这是他们现在可以承担的责任。

Brad: Bye-bye DiggBar. Join the ranks of Pownce.

布拉德：再见DiggBar。加入Pownce的行列。

Kevin: Bye-bye DiggBar and hello, Kevin Rose.

凯文：再见DiggBar，你好，凯文·罗斯。

Kevin: They slipped something else in with this announcement though. Patrick, you said you were talking about they’re unbanning domains.

凯文：尽管如此，他们还是宣布了其他内容。帕特里克(Patrick)，您说过您在谈论他们正在禁止域名。

Patrick: Right. So previously Digg had banned the domains that had circumvented their ToS in some way, spammers, malware, whatever and now, apparently, all previously unbanned domains are going to be cleared so you can submit them to Digg once again and he does say that they will apply some automatic filters to prevent malware, virus and ToS violations but no other restrictions will be placed on the content. So it sounds like maybe a similar end result. You’ll be filtered out one way or another if you do something but unbanning domains is the headline.

帕特里克：对。因此，以前Digg禁止以某种方式绕过其ToS的域，垃圾邮件发送者，恶意软件等，现在，显然，所有以前未被禁止的域都将被清除，因此您可以再次将其提交给Digg，他的确表示将会应用一些自动过滤器来防止恶意软件，病毒和ToS违规，但是内容不会受到其他限制。因此，听起来可能是类似的最终结果。如果您执行某项操作，但标题不限制域名，则会以一种或另一种方式将您过滤掉。

Kevin: But it’s like – what’s the word when all is forgiven?

凯文：但这就像–当一切都被宽恕时是什么意思？

Brad: A pass.

布拉德：通过。

Patrick: Yeah, immunity, I don’t know.

帕特里克：是的，免疫力，我不知道。

Kevin: You can all bring in— yeah, yeah, yeah, you get to have one more chance. Everyone gets one more chance.

凯文：你们都可以带进来-是的，是的，您还有更多机会。每个人都有一个机会。

Alright. So that’s the DiggBar, nothing to do with the iPhone. Next is a bunch of graphs. I love graphs. Brad…

好的。这就是DiggBar，与iPhone无关。接下来是一堆图。我喜欢图。布拉德

Patrick: You’re a graph guy, huh?

帕特里克：你是个图形专家，是吗？

Brad: Graphs are good.

布拉德：图表很好。

Kevin: …I love it whenever you find graphs for me.

凯文： …只要您找到我的图表，我都会喜欢。

Brad: I like to find graphs.

布拉德：我喜欢找到图表。

Kevin: Tell me about the graphs.

凯文：告诉我图表。

Brad: So Pingdom.com, which is uptime and performance monitoring website, they made a really kind of interesting blog post that does have a lot of graphs and basically what they are kind of displaying here or graphing out are the upgrade patterns of the top browsers out there. So you can kind of see how they compare between Chrome and Firefox and Internet Explorer and Safari, how their users are upgrading, how quickly they’re upgrading when the new version comes out. And it’s really an interesting article because I guess I never realized the different methods that each browser uses to alert their users to an upgrade. In fact, Chrome and Firefox and Internet Explorer are all different. They don’t act the same way which I never really put together.

布拉德：所以Pingdom.com是一个正常运行时间和性能监控网站，他们撰写了一篇非常有趣的博客文章，其中包含很多图表，基本上它们在此处显示或绘制的是顶部的升级模式浏览器。因此，您可以看到他们如何比较Chrome和Firefox，Internet Explorer和Safari，他们的用户如何升级，新版本发布时他们升级的速度如何。这真的是一篇有趣的文章，因为我想我从未意识到每种浏览器用来提醒用户升级的不同方法。实际上，Chrome，Firefox和Internet Explorer都是不同的。它们的行为方式与我从未真正组合过的方式不同。

The difference are Chrome actually has automatic upgrades. It doesn’t ask the user when a new version comes out, it upgrades it and applies it and the user is none the wiser. So a new version would just show up the next day. Now I’m sure some people aren’t a huge fan of that but that’s how Chrome does it.

区别在于Chrome实际上具有自动升级功能。它不会询问用户何时发布新版本，而是会对其进行升级并应用它，而用户则不是最明智的选择。因此，第二天就会出现一个新版本。现在，我敢肯定有些人不是那么喜欢它，但这就是Chrome做到的方式。

IE’s at the opposite end of the spectrum and they really don’t nag users too much about upgrading and it pops up as a critical update but if you don’t do it, it’ll just sit there and keep asking you to do it every time you run Windows updates.

IE处于相反的境地，他们确实不会过多地困扰用户升级，它会作为重要更新弹出，但是如果您不这样做，它只会坐在那里并不断要求您这样做每次您运行Windows更新时。

Firefox takes a different approach. Now they actually force minor updates automatically. For example like from 3.6.1 to 3.6.2 would happen automatically. You wouldn’t know that it happened, it would just upgrade. However, for major releases they don’t force those on the user. So a user would have to actually accept the upgrade and allow Firefox to do it.

Firefox采用了不同的方法。现在，他们实际上会自动强制进行次要更新。例如，从3.6.1到3.6.2会自动发生。您不会知道它发生了，只会升级。但是，对于主要版本，它们不会将这些版本强加给用户。因此，用户将必须实际接受升级并允许Firefox进行升级。

But it’s really interesting. I’m looking at these graphs and obviously, since Chrome forces the upgrade, you can see within a matter of three months Chrome 3.0 is, as far as the graph is concerned, at the 0% mark and 4.0 is up to 7% or 8% which is their market share whereas IE has that blue IE 6 line that’s still kind of dipping down around the 10% mark and IE 8’s up around 25% or so. So it’s definitely kind of interesting to see the different approach that each browser takes.

但这真的很有趣。我正在查看这些图表，显然，由于Chrome强制进行了升级，因此您可以在三个月内看到，就图表而言，Chrome 3.0的标记为0％，4.0的标记为7％，或者8％是他们的市场份额，而IE拥有蓝色的IE 6产品线仍在10％左右的范围内下降，而IE 8则大约在25％左右。因此，看到每个浏览器采用不同的方法肯定很有趣。

Kevin: The Google Chrome graph is beautiful. This is the envy of all of the other browser upgrade graphs I’d say like the lines, the new release comes out, that line dances up and the other line dances down to nothing, almost instantly and the Internet Explorer one, it’s almost unrecognizable. It is the same pattern essentially but it’s stretched out over so much time that it just looks lazy lines not really responding to any kind of meaningful events.

凯文： Google Chrome浏览器的图形非常漂亮。我想说的是，所有其他浏览器升级图都令人羡慕，就像台词一样，新版本问世，台词跳起来，而其他台词跳到零，几乎是即时的，对于Internet Explorer，这几乎是无法识别的。本质上是相同的模式，但是它花费了太多的时间，以致看起来只是懒惰的行而没有真正响应任何有意义的事件。

Patrick: It’s easy to be pretty when you force the users to download your browser and also copy the credit card information.

帕特里克：当您强迫用户下载浏览器并复制信用卡信息时，很容易变得漂亮。

Kevin: (laugh) I didn’t see that in the graphs.

凯文：(笑)我没在图中看到。

Patrick: That’s in the fine print.

帕特里克：印刷精美。

Brad: You know I kind of like Chrome and Google’s approach. I mean I really think in this day and age since web apps are really supposed to be independent of the browser, whereas 10 years ago web apps were built for a specific browser and that’s one of the reasons IE 6 is still around that it should be independent. So if you’re forced to upgrade to the latest version, it’s only going to keep you more secure, give you more features, going to support newer standards like HTML 5, CSS 3, whatever it may be and there shouldn’t be issues with websites as long as they are following those standards and those methods.

布拉德：您知道我有点喜欢Chrome和Google的方法。我的意思是我确实认为在当今时代，因为Web应用程序确实应该独立于浏览器，而10年前，Web应用程序是为特定的浏览器构建的，这就是IE 6仍然存在的原因之一。独立。因此，如果您被迫升级到最新版本，那么它只会使您更加安全，为您提供更多功能，支持诸如HTML 5，CSS 3之类的更新标准，无论可能是什么，都应该没有问题。只要遵循这些标准和方法的网站。

Kevin: Chrome has at least one unfair advantage in this race at the moment and that’s that so far, every operating system they supported on day one is still supported today and what plays havoc with things like the upgrade patterns of Internet Explorer or even Safari to some extent is that these browsers have limited support in older operating systems. And as soon as Google has to say alright, this latest release no longer works on Windows XP, for example, you’re going to see this beautiful graph that they have here have a little messiness in it I think as they are forced to leave those users behind. You agree?

凯文： Chrome目前在这场竞赛中至少具有一个不公平的优势，那就是到目前为止，他们在第一天所支持的每个操作系统今天仍然受到支持，并且对Internet Explorer甚至Safari到这些浏览器在一定程度上限制了较旧操作系统的支持。而且，一旦谷歌不得不说好，这个最新版本就不再适用于Windows XP，例如，您将看到这张漂亮的图，他们在这里有点混乱，我认为他们被迫离开那些落后的用户。你同意？

Brad: Yeah, I mean it’s definitely a valid point. It’s hard to say when that’s going to happen or how it’s going to happen but if it does happen and you’re right, you hate to leave users behind but if that’s what – you know if 5 or 10 years from now, they have to say look, we’re no longer supporting XP or obviously, probably not that long but at some point you’re right. They might have to do that so.

布拉德：是的，我的意思是绝对正确。很难说这将何时发生或将如何发生，但是如果确实发生了并且您是对的，那么您就讨厌将用户抛在后面，但是如果那样的话–您知道从现在起5年或10年后，他们必须说看，我们不再支持XP，或者显然不再支持XP，但是在某些时候您是对的。他们可能必须这样做。

Kevin: Yeah, so many of these lagging IE 6 users I would say are Windows, really Windows 98 and people like that that they’ve been forced to leave behind and who refuse to upgrade to a new operating system or simply can’t justify it. So that’s story number 2, nothing to do with the iPhone.

凯文：是的，我会说很多落后的IE 6用户是Windows，真的是Windows 98，以及像这样的人，他们被迫抛在后面，拒绝升级到新的操作系统，或者根本无法证明他们是合理的它。这就是故事2，与iPhone无关。

The next one is getting perilously close to an iPhone story and Apple has quietly announced on the WebKit development list that they’re coming up with WebKit 2. WebKit is – it’s kind of one of those names that you can apply at different levels but WebKit certainly is the rendering engine that is at the heart of browsers like Safari and Google Chrome and also Safari Mobile for the iPhone but let’s just pretend that’s not the case for a second. What they’re announcing here is the toolkit Apple uses to embed that rendering engine into Safari. So in order to put the WebKit rendering engine into Chrome, Google came up with their own way of doing it so that they can have like separate processes for each tab that one of those big technology advances that they were very proud of when they launched Chrome and they said at the time they are only making their own browser because they want to show these techniques to other browser vendors and hope they catch on.

下一个正在危险地接近iPhone的故事，苹果公司在WebKit开发列表上悄悄宣布他们要使用WebKit2。WebKit是–可以在不同级别应用的名称之一，但WebKit确实是渲染引擎，它是Safari和Google Chrome浏览器以及iPhone的Safari Mobile等浏览器的核心，但是我们假装情况并非如此。他们在这里宣布的是Apple用来将该渲染引擎嵌入Safari的工具包。因此，为了将WebKit呈现引擎集成到Chrome中，Google提出了自己的实现方式，以便他们可以对每个选项卡使用单独的流程，这是他们在启动Chrome时感到非常自豪的一项重大技术进步他们说当时他们只是在制造自己的浏览器，因为他们想向其他浏览器供应商展示这些技术，并希望他们能够流行。

Well, it seems to be catching on because WebKit 2 is an open source framework for doing that same thing, an open source framework for building the WebKit rendering engine into your browser with separate processes for each of the tabs or whatever you happen to have in your user interface. Developers, I would say would be pretty excited by this. Certainly, if you’re Nokia and you’ve decided to use WebKit for some of your mobile phone browsers as they have, assuming this toolkit will run on that limited hardware platform, this is a great new feature. A tab in a mobile phone browser now will be able to crash just like a tab can crash in Chrome and not take down the rest of the browser or even the rest of the phone. So this is a good thing.

嗯，它似乎正在流行，因为WebKit 2是一个用于执行相同操作的开源框架，一个用于将WebKit呈现引擎构建到浏览器中的开源框架，其中每个选项卡或您碰巧遇到的任何东西都有单独的过程。您的用户界面。开发人员，我会对此感到非常兴奋。当然，如果您是诺基亚，并且已经决定将WebKit用于某些手机浏览器，则假定此工具包将在有限的硬件平台上运行，则这是一个很棒的新功能。现在，手机浏览器中的标签页将能够崩溃，就像Chrome浏览器中的标签页崩溃一样，并且不会关闭浏览器的其余部分，甚至不会关闭手机的其余部分。所以这是一件好事。

Brad: I think it’s great. I mean that’s one of the features in Chrome that I’ve really loved ever since they implemented it and not only is it – at least in Chrome, not only is it by tab but it’s also extensions have their own process as well. So if you have an extension running and it crashes, it won’t bring down your whole browser. So it would be great to see that kind of expand into Safari and some of the other devices that are using it.

布拉德：我认为这很棒。我的意思是，这是自从他们实现以来我一直真正喜欢的Chrome功能之一，不仅如此-至少在Chrome中，不仅按选项卡显示，而且扩展程序都有自己的过程。因此，如果您运行的扩展程序崩溃了，它将不会降低您的整个浏览器。因此，很高兴能看到这种扩展到Safari和其他使用它的其他设备。

Kevin: You said that you liked this feature in Chrome, how often do you get to see crashed tabs.

凯文：您说过您喜欢Chrome中的此功能，因此您经常看到崩溃的标签页。

Brad: Not often. On occasion, a site will hang or you run a process, endless loop or something like that that might try to lock up your browser. It has happened before though and that’s actually how I first discovered the task manager. It wasn’t, at least a little while ago, maybe even a year ago or half a year ago I should say, it wasn’t really that well known and that’s how I kind of discovered it but playing around with it the other day I also realized how extensions are separate processes. So I mean I think that’s genius. It’ll be nice when it’s kind of all independent of each other so you’re not having these constant browser crashes. You can kind of determine what’s the problem, kill it, and move along.

布拉德：很少。有时，网站会挂起，或者您运行进程，无休止的循环或类似的尝试可能会锁定浏览器。但是，它以前曾经发生过，而这实际上就是我第一次发现任务管理器的方式。至少在不久之前，甚至在一年前或半年前，我应该说，它并不是那么知名，这就是我发现它的方式，但是有一天我在玩它我也意识到扩展是如何独立的过程。所以我的意思是我认为那是天才。当它们彼此独立时会很好，这样您就不会遇到这些持续的浏览器崩溃的情况。您可以确定问题所在，消除它，然后继续前进。

Kevin: Yeah, in Google Chrome I know Alex Walker, our designer for sitepoint.com, he switched to Google Chrome awhile ago and it took a couple of months before he ran into a crashed tab and just one day he went “What the heck is this?” And I came over and just like Google showed off in their technology demo when they launched the browser, his tab had turned to dark grey and had sort of a frowning computer in the tab and nothing else. And he said I was just looking at a web page and it turned into this and I said yeah, that’s a crashed tab in Google Chrome and he goes “Well, that’s not very obvious.” If it was something that was happening all the time and it happened the very first day that you installed Google Chrome, I think people would get used to it but as something that only happens once every few months, I would suggest they need a little text in that tab to explain what happened.

凯文：是的，在Google Chrome浏览器中，我知道我们sitepoint.com的设计师Alex Walker不久前就改用了Google Chrome浏览器，花了几个月的时间才撞上崩溃的标签，而就在一天之内，他去了这是？” 然后我走了过来，就像Google在启动浏览器时在其技术演示中炫耀的那样，他的标签变成了深灰色，标签中有些皱着眉头的计算机，其他都没有。他说我只是看着网页，然后变成了网页，我说是的，那是Google Chrome浏览器中崩溃的标签，他说：“嗯，这不是很明显。” 如果这是一直发生的事情，并且是在您安装Google Chrome的第一天发生的，我想人们会习惯的，但是由于每隔几个月才发生一次，我建议他们需要一点文字在该标签中解释发生了什么。

And so that is it. Well, actually, we’ve got one more story that has nothing to do with the iPhone but I think we should save it. Let’s save it. Let’s set that aside for a second and dive right in here.

就是这样。好吧，实际上，我们还有一个与iPhone无关的故事，但我认为我们应该保存它。让我们保存。让我们暂时搁置一会儿，然后在这里潜水。

Opera Mini on the iPhone. We talked about it two weeks ago in our last news podcast and I can’t remember but I think we were all kind of hedging our bets as to whether it would be allowed on to the iPhone. Opera made a big song and dance about saying we have submitted our mobile browser to the Apple App Store and it’s now all in Apple’s hands. If it doesn’t get allowed in, that’s all Apple’s fault and then they started doing the tours showing off their browser at conferences and they posted a video of the user interface and it was really like they were campaigning against the anticipated denial from Apple of this app and what’s happened, it’s been allowed and depending on who you ask, either it was always going to be allowed and Opera was getting themselves worked up over nothing or all of the campaigning that Opera did paid off and they’ve been allowed in only because they made such a big noise about it.

iPhone上的Opera Mini。两周前，我们在上次新闻播客中谈到了这一点，我不记得了，但我认为我们都在押注是否可以在iPhone上押注。 Opera说我们已将移动浏览器提交给Apple App Store时大放异彩，而现在一切已由Apple掌握。如果不被允许，那完全是苹果公司的错，然后他们开始在会议上展示其浏览器进行巡回演出，并发布了用户界面的视频，这真的像是他们在为反对苹果公司的预期拒绝而作斗争。该应用程序以及发生了什么事情，是否被允许，并且取决于您要求的人，要么总是会被允许，Opera正在使自己陷入困境，或者Opera付出了所有的竞选活动，而他们却被允许进入只是因为他们为此大声疾呼。

Which do you think, Brad?

布拉德，您认为哪个？

Brad: It’s hard to say, maybe a little of both. Maybe they’re just trying to get the spotlight off of them because one of the other topics we’re going to talk about later. It’s hard to say exactly but I mean I was one of the ones that was surprised and I think on the last show where we talked about it, I was fairly certain it would not be accepted. So I’m just as surprised as everybody else that it actually was accepted but you know hats off to Apple I guess.

布拉德：很难说，也许两者都有。也许他们只是想引起人们的关注，因为稍后我们将要讨论的其他主题之一。很难确切地说，但我的意思是我是感到惊讶的人之一，并且我认为在上一场我们谈论它的节目中，我相当确定它不会被接受。因此，我和其他所有人一样感到惊讶，它实际上被接受了，但我想您一定会对Apple表示敬意。

Kevin: They had their counter that was counting up and it is now stopped. It says Opera Mini was approved after 20 days, 8 hours, 31 minutes and 0 seconds which listening to other iPhone app developers, they’ve been saying that Apple’s been getting really quick and in some cases has been approving at least updates to existing apps within the day. But 20 days for a new app, that feels to me like Apple had to stop and think about it but not for very long.

凯文：他们的柜台在计数，现在停了。它说Opera Mini是在20天，8小时，31分钟和0秒后获得批准的，听取了其他iPhone应用程序开发人员的意见，他们一直在说Apple的发展非常Swift，在某些情况下，至少已经批准了对现有应用程序的更新。在一天之内。但是对于一个新应用程序来说，有20天的时间，在我看来，苹果公司不得不停下来思考一下，但时间并不长。

Patrick: At the end of the day I don’t think matters for Apple whether it was their campaign or whether Apple was always going to allow it. The bottom line is they’re in. So whatever they were hoping to accomplish through the app they can now go after.

帕特里克(Patrick)：归根结底，对于苹果公司而言，无论是他们的竞选活动还是苹果公司始终允许这样做，我都不认为这很重要。他们的底线是他们。因此，无论他们希望通过该应用程序完成什么，他们现在都可以继续进行。

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. Yesterday I was out of the office doing a training and between the breaks I was checking Twitter and noticed that this had happened and literally, it took about 15 minutes from the time that the first person in my Twitter feed noticed that Opera Mini was available in the App Store, within 15 minutes that person was griping about the terrible user interface of this browser. It is amazing how fickle we are as iPhone users. How quickly we go from “must be allowed in! Must be allowed in to!” “Oh my god, it’s a piece of crap!”

凯文：是的，当然。昨天我不在办公室进行培训，在两次休息之间，我正在检查Twitter，发现这确实发生了，从字面上看，从我的Twitter feed中的第一个人注意到Opera Mini在在App Store中，人们在15分钟内就掌握了该浏览器的糟糕用户界面。令人惊讶的是，我们作为iPhone用户的多变。我们必须从多快进入“必须接受！必须被允许进入！” “哦，天哪，这真是胡扯！”

It was astonishing but listening to Opera, they admit that this user interface is not the ideal and what they really did is they took their Opera Mini browser that they have for all the different mobile phones out there that’s written in Java and they did a direct port as much as possible as they could. They just copied the lines of code over and translated them from Java into Objective-C and did the minimum amount of work necessary to create an iPhone app. And the reason they had to do that and not invest more time in making it pretty is because they had no guarantees that this app was ever going to make it onto the phone. So why do that extra work to make it pretty?

令人惊讶的是，他们听了Opera的声音，他们承认这个用户界面并不是理想的选择，实际上他们所做的是他们带着自己的Opera Mini浏览器，该浏览器适用于所有用Java编写的不同手机，并且他们直接尽可能多地移植。他们只是将代码行复制过来，并将其从Java转换为Objective-C，并完成了创建iPhone应用程序所需的最少工作。他们之所以必须这样做，而不是花更多的时间使它漂亮，是因为他们无法保证这个应用程序一定会在手机上实现。那么，为什么还要做一些额外的工作才能使其漂亮呢？

I don’t know if, listener, you’ve had any experience developing Java apps for mobile phones but I’ve actually done some of that and the user interface features of those phones are pathetic and if you’re a professional developer, the correct way to do it is to ignore all the user interface features of these phones and draw your own user interface from scratch. And so that’s exactly what Opera Mini is doing now on the iPhone. It’s ignoring the toolbars and the buttons and even the scrolling and zooming behaviors that are provided by the device and it’s emulating its own which is slower and not as smooth and just doesn’t respond in the way that iPhone users are used to and that’s why they’re reacting negatively here. What I wonder is, is Apple at fault here? Is their uncertain approval process preventing serious developers like those at Opera from investing real time into creating polished apps at least for the first release?

听众，我不知道您是否有过开发用于手机的Java应用程序的经验，但实际上我已经做了一些，这些手机的用户界面功能是可悲的，如果您是专业开发人员，那么正确的方法是忽略这些电话的所有用户界面功能，并从头开始绘制自己的用户界面。这就是Opera Mini现在在iPhone上所做的。它忽略了设备提供的工具栏和按钮，甚至滚动和缩放行为，并且正在模仿它自己的过程，该过程较慢且不那么平滑，只是没有以iPhone用户习惯的方式进行响应，所以这就是为什么他们在这里做出负面React。我不知道苹果在这里吗？他们不确定的审批流程是否会阻止Opera等严肃的开发人员至少在第一版中就投入实时时间来创建精美的应用程序？

Brad: I definitely don’t blame Opera for not investing too much in it. It’s obviously functional and it works and I’ve played with it and I think it definitely has potential but I can’t blame them for not investing tens of thousands of dollars in this app not knowing whether it will be accepted or not and assuming it probably wouldn’t be accepted. I think they probably played their cards correctly.

布拉德：我绝对不怪Opera没花太多钱。它显然是功能性的并且可以运行，而且我已经玩过它，并且我认为它绝对有潜力，但是我不能怪他们没有在这个应用程序中投入数万美元而不知道它是否会被接受并承担它。可能不会被接受。我认为他们可能正确地打了牌。

Now that they know it’s in, there’s going to be a lot of pressure to push out an update that is going to fix a lot of these issues that people have pointed out.

既然他们知道它已经存在了，那么发布更新的压力将很大，该更新将解决人们指出的许多问题。

Kevin: Yeah, I read several Opera people on Twitter sort of saying yeah, yeah, we know it’s not very nice; we’re going to get right on that. We really didn’t expect this to be approved. And I would suggest that some of them sound a bit embarrassed. They’re like oh, we kind of did this to make a point; we didn’t actually want people to be using this version of the browser. Yeah, umm, sorry about that.

凯文：是的，我在Twitter上读了几位Opera人士，说是的，是的，我们知道这不是很好。我们将正确地做到这一点。我们真的没想到这会被批准。我建议其中一些听起来有些尴尬。他们就像哦，我们这样做是为了指出一点；我们实际上并不希望人们使用此版本的浏览器。是的，嗯，对此感到抱歉。

We interviewed Jon Hicks on this show several months back while he was still working at Opera. He has since left Opera to chase freelance projects again because he is an addict for variety I think as a designer but he wrote on Twitter now that that app has been approved he is disappointed that he’s not going to get to be the one to design its native user interface. So you know that sort of stuff tells me that we’re very quickly going to see an Opera Mini 2 for the iPhone. But this is an example of a Twitter post, a Twitter reaction I saw: “Opera Mini like VNC-ing from your iPhone to a Motorola Razr with a really fast connection.”

几个月前，乔恩·希克斯(Jon Hicks)在Opera任职期间，我们采访了他。从那以后，他就离开Opera继续从事自由项目，因为他是一名设计师，我喜欢各种各样的游戏，但是他在Twitter上写道，现在该应用已获批准，他对自己将不再成为设计它的人感到失望。本机用户界面。因此，您知道这类事情告诉我，我们很快就会看到iPhone的Opera Mini 2。但这是一个Twitter帖子的示例，我看到一个TwitterReact ：“ Opera Mini像VNC一样从您的iPhone到摩托罗拉Razr，连接速度非常快。”

If you don’t know what VNC is, that’s like a remote desktop. It’s like this browser gives you a remote desktop to a really fast but really crappy mobile phone browser. And the way Opera Mini works is whenever you request a page, that page actually gets sent to an Opera server at Opera and it crunches that page down to a much simpler representation, it has no JavaScript in it, the images are made smaller and more compressed and then it sends that to your phone. There’s some concern over the privacy ramifications of that, that everything that you browse is going to be passing through an Opera server. Is that at all a concern for you, Brad, in deciding whether to use this browser? Patrick, would that affect your choice at all if you were an iPhone user?

如果您不知道什么是VNC，那就像是远程桌面。就像该浏览器为您提供了一个远程桌面，可使用非常快速但非常糟糕的手机浏览器。而且，Opera Mini的工作方式是每当您请求一个页面时，该页面实际上就被发送到Opera的Opera服务器，并且将页面压缩为更简单的表示形式，其中没有JavaScript，图像变得越来越小。压缩，然后将其发送到您的手机。隐私带来的后果令人担忧，您浏览的所有内容都将通过Opera服务器传递。布拉德，在决定是否使用此浏览器时，这对您完全没有关系吗？帕特里克(Patrick)，如果您是iPhone用户，那会根本影响您的选择吗？

Brad: It’s not a huge concern for me. I guess my main concern with that isn’t so much privacy, it’s more of if I was to get attached to this app and really fall in love with it, who’s to say Opera’s going to be around in a few years from now. We never know what’s going to happen. So if this app relies on Opera servers or something an Opera site to function, that might worry me a little bit but as far as privacy, you know I’m not kind of – well, other people may be but I wouldn’t login to like my bank account via the mobile browser. I would use apps specifically created for that or do it on my computer. Other people might do that. That’s not something I would do. So I wouldn’t really be doing super sensitive stuff through my mobile browser anyways, at least not right now.

布拉德：对我来说不是什么大问题。我想我主要关心的不是隐私，而是更多的是我是否会依附于这个应用程序并真正爱上它，他说Opera将在几年后问世。我们永远不知道会发生什么。因此，如果此应用依赖Opera服务器或Opera网站来运行，可能会令我有些担心，但就隐私而言，您知道我不是–也许其他人可以，但我不会登录通过移动浏览器喜欢我的银行帐户。我会使用专门为此创建的应用程序，或者在我的计算机上使用。其他人可能会这样做。那不是我要做的。因此，无论如何我不会真的通过移动浏览器来做超敏感的事情，至少现在不是。

Patrick: So in the farfetched alternate reality that would allow me to afford it, to afford an iPhone first and foremost, the privacy question is an interesting one because that’s not one I’ve thought about and the Opera, I think its Turbo, isn’t that right, that’s what this is called this feature, Opera Turbo?

帕特里克：所以在让我买得起，首先要买一部iPhone的牵强的替代现实中，隐私问题是一个有趣的问题，因为这不是我想过的，而我认为Opera(它的Turbo)不是不是吗，这就是所谓的Opera Turbo功能吗？

Kevin: I think Turbo is what they called it when they put this feature into the desktop browser.

凯文：我认为当他们将此功能放入桌面浏览器时，他们就是Turbo。

Patrick: Right. So the desktop browser has the same ability to do this if you want it to, to pass it through their server. So the same privacy concern would exist there and I hadn’t thought about that. I don’t know, it might sit in the back of my head but then all the instant messengers always say that they can view your chats anyway. So I don’t know how private we really are. I probably wouldn’t think of it. I would probably say if I really needed to use this, I would go ahead and do it. That’s the trade off for the speed you’ll hopefully get from using it versus just the standard browser.

帕特里克：对。因此，如果需要的话，桌面浏览器具有相同的能力，可以将其通过他们的服务器。因此，同样的隐私问题在那里也存在，我没有考虑过。我不知道，它可能坐在我的脑后，但所有即时通讯员总是说他们仍然可以查看您的聊天记录。所以我不知道我们到底有多私密。我可能不会考虑。我可能会说，如果我真的需要使用它，我会继续做下去。这是您希望使用它而不是使用标准浏览器所能达到的速度的折衷方案。

Kevin: And that’s the killer feature of this browser. If you use it it’s all about the speed and that’s what made it such a killer application on these simpler phones that came before the iPhone because these phones didn’t have a lot of grunt and if you tried to load full web pages into them, they really struggled and it wasn’t your connection speed that caused you to wait, it was the phone sort of doing its best to struggle through all that HTML and CSS and make sense of it and cram it into that small display. For me, the iPhone does a very decent job of that and I don’t know, Brad, is speed something you’ve craved more of in your iPhone browsing to this point?

凯文：这就是该浏览器的杀手feature。如果您使用它，那就是速度，这就是在iPhone之前出现的这些更简单的手机上使其成为杀手级应用程序的原因，因为这些手机没有太多麻烦，并且如果您尝试将完整的网页加载到其中，他们真的很挣扎，不是您的连接速度导致您等待，而是电话竭尽全力在所有HTML和CSS中挣扎并弄清了意义，并将其塞入那个小显示屏中。对我来说，iPhone在这方面做得非常不错，布拉德，我不知道您现在渴望在iPhone浏览中提高速度吗？

Brad: I wouldn’t say it’s something I’ve thought about too much. I mean I feel like if I’m on 3G I expect it to be slow you know. If I’m on Wi-Fi I expect it to be a little bit quicker. So I really haven’t felt limited by Safari as far as speed. I mean it’s certainly something I want I mean if I want if I can. That’s the main reason I switched to Chrome was because of speed. So if Opera really gets it together and gets the UI together and comes out with version 2 and it’s twice as fast as Safari, I would definitely consider switching to it.

布拉德：我不会说这是我考虑太多的事情。我的意思是，我感觉如果我使用3G，我希望它会变慢。如果我使用Wi-Fi，我希望它会更快一些。因此，就速度而言，我真的没有受到Safari的限制。我的意思是肯定是我想要的东西，如果可以的话。那就是我改用Chrome的主要原因是因为速度。因此，如果Opera真正将其整合在一起，并且将UI整合在一起，并随版本2一起发布，并且它的速度是Safari的两倍，我肯定会考虑切换到它。

Kevin: So some people are saying this is a victory for browser choice on the iPhone and it’s going to pave the way for the Firefoxes and the Googles of the world to make their own alternative browser for this device but the catch is that at least as far as I can see, the reason Opera Mini there was no problem with approving it is because there’s no JavaScript support and therefore there is no ability to run any application you want in this browser. This browser can just display web pages, not create interactive applications. And the iPhone terms of service or the developer agreement says that Apple isn’t going to approve anything that has a language runtime in it and it seems to me that a Firefox mobile for the iPhone or a Chrome mobile for the iPhone, those browsers, if they took their JavaScript support out, I’m not sure people would be too happy with them.

凯文：所以有人说这是iPhone上浏览器选择的胜利，这将为Firefox和世界上的Google为该设备制作自己的替代浏览器铺平道路，但问题是，至少据我所知，Opera Mini的批准没有问题的原因是因为没有JavaScript支持，因此无法在此浏览器中运行您想要的任何应用程序。该浏览器只能显示网页，而不能创建交互式应用程序。 iPhone的服务条款或开发者协议说，Apple不会批准其中包含语言运行时的任何东西，在我看来，iPhone的Firefox手机或iPhone的Chrome手机，那些浏览器，如果他们取消对JavaScript的支持，我不确定人们是否会对他们感到满意。

Brad: Yeah, I mean I think you make a good point, Kevin. I think JavaScript obviously is a big piece of most websites’ functionalities that are out there. I see a lot of people commenting about how Gmail obviously explodes on the Opera browser or Opera Mini. You’re right. Whether they would approve it or not, it sounds like they wouldn’t. It’s nice to see that Opera kind of opened this door so maybe you know, like you said Firefox and Chrome, maybe they really consider doing this, maybe not. We’ll see what Opera comes back with. I think that’s really going to kind of tell the tale.

布拉德：是的，我是说凯文，我想你说的很对。我认为JavaScript显然是大多数网站功能的重要组成部分。我看到很多人评论Gmail在Opera浏览器或Opera Mini上如何爆炸。你是对的。不管他们是否批准，听起来好像他们都不赞成。很高兴看到Opera能够打开这扇门，所以也许您知道，就像您说的Firefox和Chrome，也许他们真的考虑过这样做，也许没有。我们将看到Opera附带的内容。我认为这确实可以说明问题。

Kevin: We have a lot more to say about what Apple will and won’t approve but let’s take a step away and we kept aside that last story that has nothing to do with the iPhone.

凯文(Kevin)：关于苹果公司将批准和不批准苹果公司的事情，我们还有很多话要说，但我们走了一步，我们撇开了与iPhone无关的最后一个故事。

Patrick, tell us about Twitter’s advertising platform.

帕特里克(Patrick)，向我们介绍Twitter的广告平台。

Patrick: Well, for a long time people have talked about how Twitter would monetize and advertising has kind of always been a part of that conversation and now they’ve finally, or the news finally broke about what the platform will look like. It’ll look like, I guess, a sponsored tweet. They’re calling it a promoted tweet and right now it’s going to be in their search results. So when you search on Twitter and the sidebar, that little Twitter search thing, at the top of a given keyword, if there’s a advertiser for it, you’ll be shown a promoted tweet and the example they show here in this post at TechCrunch, which is actually from Advertising Age I believe, they show a screenshot of a tweet from Starbucks from the actual Starbucks account. It’s an actual tweet and it’s just paid to be promoted to the top of the search result for the word Starbucks. One of the uses for this as noted in the article is for a company dealing with a lot of negative press, they could put a Tweet at the top that was not so negative or that was their statement about the situation and hopefully get some attention to it in that way. Some of their initial ad partners are Best Buy, Virgin America, Starbucks, as I said, and as well as Bravo, the TV network. There’s another part of this for developers especially third party Twitter client developers because they’ll be able to integrate promoted tweets into their apps and get a cut of the revenue.

帕特里克：嗯，很长一段时间以来，人们一直在谈论Twitter的获利方式，而广告一直是这种对话的一部分，现在他们终于结束了，或者有关该平台的外观的新闻终于传开了。我想这看起来像是一条赞助推文。他们称它为推广推文，现在将在搜索结果中。因此，当您在Twitter和侧边栏上搜索时，在给定关键字的顶部，如果没有广告商，就会显示Twitter上的小搜索内容，这将向您显示推荐的推文，以及它们在TechCrunch上的示例中显示的示例。，该地址实际上来自广告时代，它们显示了来自实际星巴克帐户的星巴克推文的屏幕截图。这是一条实际的推文，只是为了将其提升到“星巴克”一词的搜索结果顶部而已。如本文所述，此方法的用途之一是用于处理大量负面新闻的公司，他们可以将Tweet放在不是那么负面的顶部，或者是他们对情况的陈述，并希望引起关注以这种方式。正如我所说，他们最初的广告合作伙伴包括百思买，维珍美国航空，星巴克，以及电视网络Bravo。对于开发人员，尤其是第三方Twitter客户端开发人员，这还有另一部分，因为他们将能够将推广的推文集成到他们的应用程序中，并减少收入。

Kevin: So it’s like a paid last word feature. You can pay to get the last word in any conversation about your brand.

凯文：这就像有偿付费功能。您可以付费获得有关您的品牌的任何对话的硬道理。

Patrick: Probably the first word. I would say the first word, right? Because it’s at the top and it’s like the Google.

帕特里克：可能是第一个词。我会说第一个字，对吗？因为它位于顶部，就像Google。

Think of it as Google search ads at the top of Google but there’ll be just one ad shown at any given time so there won’t be like four links like it is in Google. It’s just going to be one link and its going to be paid I guess on a CPM basis for the beginning of it but they’re going to adjust the model as they can, I guess, better gauge how people are dealing with those tweets. And also one other note that’s interesting is that a promoted tweet isn’t guaranteed to stay at the top apparently. If the tweet isn’t meeting some metrics that Twitter sets like replies, clicks and something they call ”resonance”, then it could be pulled and the advertiser won’t pay.

您可以将其视为位于Google顶部的Google搜索广告，但在任何给定时间都只会展示一个广告，因此不会像Google那样出现四个链接。我想这只是一个环节，要支付的费用是一开始的费用，但我想他们会尽可能地调整模型，以便更好地衡量人们如何处理这些推文。另外还有一点值得注意，有趣的是，提升的tweet显然不能保证保持在顶部。如果该推文没有达到Twitter设置的某些指标，例如回复，点击和他们称为“共鸣”的内容，那么它可能会被撤消，广告客户也不会付款。

Kevin: I wonder if it’s going to end up working like Google AdSense where Google measures how good your ad is and then if you still want it to appear even though it’s not a good ad, you can pay more.

凯文(Kevin)：我想知道它是否最终会像Google AdSense一样运作，在这里Google会评估您的广告质量，然后，即使它不是一个好的广告，如果您仍然希望其展示，您可以支付更多费用。

Patrick: That’s interesting. I think they’re definitely going to play with it. It’s a work in progress. Apparently, the next phase of it is to actually have promoted tweets in the actual stream based upon what is being talked about. So obviously, that’ll be a little more controversial probably.

帕特里克：这很有趣。我认为他们肯定会使用它。这项工作正在进行中。显然，它的下一阶段是根据所讨论的内容在实际流中实际推广推文。显然，这可能会引起更多争议。

Kevin: Yeah. Well, and you know because I haven’t used the Twitter website in awhile now, how is this going to affect people who are using desktop client?

凯文：是的。好吧，您知道，因为我已经有一段时间没有使用Twitter网站了，这会对使用桌面客户端的用户产生什么影响？

Patrick: Well, that’s why they’re offering, I guess, the incentive to developers, right? I think if the app or the app developers or the desktop client developers, they build these ads into their app, obviously, they have to balance the users but also, it can be an opportunity to monetize a little bit and get a cut—but not being told what the cut is—but get a cut of the ad revenue.

帕特里克：嗯，这就是为什么他们向开发人员提供激励，对吧？我认为，如果应用程序，应用程序开发人员或桌面客户端开发人员将这些广告制作到他们的应用程序中，显然，他们必须平衡用户，而且，这可能是一个从中获利并获得收益的机会-但not being told what the cut is—but get a cut of the ad revenue.

Kevin: Mmm.

Brad: Does this seem kind of boring to either one of you? I mean with Twitter, I kind of expected some kind of revolutionary ad plat— You know they’ve been talking about this for years, everybody’s speculate and they come out and do this which just seems very kind of standard. I mean it doesn’t seem that revolutionary.

Brad: Does this seem kind of boring to either one of you? I mean with Twitter, I kind of expected some kind of revolutionary ad plat— You know they've been talking about this for years, everybody's speculate and they come out and do this which just seems very kind of standard. I mean it doesn't seem that revolutionary.

Kevin: It feels right to me. It feels this is what they should do. It feels right but you’re right, there’s a “it took you this long to come up with this?”

Kevin: It feels right to me. It feels this is what they should do. It feels right but you're right, there's a “it took you this long to come up with this?”

Brad: Yeah, I expected a little more creative than that.

Kevin: I don’t know if they’ve been sitting around for, what is it, two years going “we got to have a better idea than this.”

Kevin: I don't know if they've been sitting around for, what is it, two years going “we got to have a better idea than this.”

Patrick: (laugh) Yeah, they might have been. I think it does. Like you said it makes sense. See, the funny thing about the advertising model is that there’s always people, whether they’d be users or business people, who will say ”oh, you know, we gotta revolutionize this, we’ve got to do something totally different that is a great tie-in and is…” But at the end of the day advertising is still advertising and what makes sense is what they’re going to do and this makes a lot of sense. Obviously, they couldn’t come up with some revolutionary idea because advertising, it takes a certain form and this is their platform and how it fits in is for it to be an actual tweet. So I’m sure there’ll be some people disappointed that they didn’t create something that, I don’t know, has never been done before.

Patrick: (laugh) Yeah, they might have been. 我认为是的。 Like you said it makes sense. See, the funny thing about the advertising model is that there's always people, whether they'd be users or business people, who will say ”oh, you know, we gotta revolutionize this, we've got to do something totally different that is a great tie-in and is…” But at the end of the day advertising is still advertising and what makes sense is what they're going to do and this makes a lot of sense. Obviously, they couldn't come up with some revolutionary idea because advertising, it takes a certain form and this is their platform and how it fits in is for it to be an actual tweet. So I'm sure there'll be some people disappointed that they didn't create something that, I don't know, has never been done before.

Kevin: Part of the disappointment I suspect would come from the fact that people are, maybe I’m just speaking for myself here, but I’m a little tired of admitting over and over again that the only way to make money off the web appears to be to plaster it with ads and maybe we all had our hopes pinned on Twitter showing us a better way or a different way at least to make money that you can make money by building an amazingly popular web service, giving it away for free and doing something other than covering it with ads.

Kevin: Part of the disappointment I suspect would come from the fact that people are, maybe I'm just speaking for myself here, but I'm a little tired of admitting over and over again that the only way to make money off the web appears to be to plaster it with ads and maybe we all had our hopes pinned on Twitter showing us a better way or a different way at least to make money that you can make money by building an amazingly popular web service, giving it away for free and doing something other than covering it with ads.

Maybe they just got our hopes up.

Patrick: You know you get money from two ways, you get money from the people who use the service or you get money from the people who want to reach the people who use the service.

So you know how – I don’t know. They have to find a way that’s communicable to major companies, Fortune 500 companies like a Starbucks or a Best Buy sometimes that their marketing people can get, can latch on so you can say “Oh my gosh, look, it’s a sponsored tweet at the top of the page. I can communicate this to my boss very easily.” You know to be revolutionary, I don’t know, they have to come up with something different and just to speak to the model question, you know what, I always tell people who complain about models the same thing: whether it be in the music industry models, whether it be advertising models because a lot of people complain about that. I say give me the new model because the moment you have the great idea, the model that’s going to make people tons of money, everyone is lining up to make that change and to remove advertising so whoever has a great idea, leave it in the comments then.

So you know how – I don't know. They have to find a way that's communicable to major companies, Fortune 500 companies like a Starbucks or a Best Buy sometimes that their marketing people can get, can latch on so you can say “Oh my gosh, look, it's a sponsored tweet at the top of the page. I can communicate this to my boss very easily.” You know to be revolutionary, I don't know, they have to come up with something different and just to speak to the model question, you know what, I always tell people who complain about models the same thing: whether it be in the music industry models, whether it be advertising models because a lot of people complain about that. I say give me the new model because the moment you have the great idea, the model that's going to make people tons of money, everyone is lining up to make that change and to remove advertising so whoever has a great idea, leave it in the comments then.

Kevin: Yeah.

凯文：是的。

Brad: I’ve got an idea.

Brad: I've got an idea.

Kevin: Oh yeah?

Brad: If you have over, let’s say, 50,000 followers you have to pay a monthly fee to use Twitter so that way we can get all these celebrities who we know have a lot of money they can go ahead kind of fund Twitter for us. For the people like us, we don’t have nearly as many. We’ll get a pass.

Brad: If you have over, let's say, 50,000 followers you have to pay a monthly fee to use Twitter so that way we can get all these celebrities who we know have a lot of money they can go ahead kind of fund Twitter for us. For the people like us, we don't have nearly as many. We'll get a pass.

Kevin: This is taxing the rich… the rich in followers.

Patrick: Yeah… I don’t know.

Patrick: Yeah… I don't know.

Brad: Hey, it’s a thought. It will be interesting once this kind of phase two happens and these ads start showing up kind of in our normal streams. I wonder if Twitter will come out with a premium paid because I would probably consider paying if it was minimal, you know paying an annual fee to not see those ads. So it would be interesting to see if they come across with that.

Brad: Hey, it's a thought. It will be interesting once this kind of phase two happens and these ads start showing up kind of in our normal streams. I wonder if Twitter will come out with a premium paid because I would probably consider paying if it was minimal, you know paying an annual fee to not see those ads. So it would be interesting to see if they come across with that.

Kevin: I’d consider paying that fee if the ads that I was seeing weren’t relevant but if, as they say, these ads are going to be keyed to the keywords in the stuff that either I’m searching for or that I’m already reading about in my stream, it may turn out that these ads aren’t so bad after all. The one common pattern I see at the moment in the evolution of making money through advertising on the Web is that we’ve always been told that successful ads look a lot like the content on your site. The more the ad can look like a piece of content just like any other on the site the more successful it’s going to be. The counter argument to that its that’s kind of – if you go take that too far it can be deceiving to the user but that does seem to be the way these platforms is going.

Kevin: I'd consider paying that fee if the ads that I was seeing weren't relevant but if, as they say, these ads are going to be keyed to the keywords in the stuff that either I'm searching for or that I'm already reading about in my stream, it may turn out that these ads aren't so bad after all. The one common pattern I see at the moment in the evolution of making money through advertising on the Web is that we've always been told that successful ads look a lot like the content on your site. The more the ad can look like a piece of content just like any other on the site the more successful it's going to be. The counter argument to that its that's kind of – if you go take that too far it can be deceiving to the user but that does seem to be the way these platforms is going.

We see Digg, its new advertising model is to have these sponsored Digg stories that people – that look exactly the same except they have that little sponsored tag on them and people can Digg them up and Digg them down just like they can with other Digg stories and Twitter’s doing the exact same thing here. They’re not releasing an advertising platform that lets advertisers put banner ads in your feed or have big paragraphs of text. Advertisers have to fit their messages into 140-character tweets too and all you see is their user avatar and their tweet and it’s just tagged with that sponsored thing. So we’ve now seen advertising move to the complete extreme where not only does it look like content on the site, it actually is a piece of content just like any other on the site. It’s just someone’s paying for it to have preferential treatment at least upfront.

We see Digg, its new advertising model is to have these sponsored Digg stories that people – that look exactly the same except they have that little sponsored tag on them and people can Digg them up and Digg them down just like they can with other Digg stories and Twitter's doing the exact same thing here. They're not releasing an advertising platform that lets advertisers put banner ads in your feed or have big paragraphs of text. Advertisers have to fit their messages into 140-character tweets too and all you see is their user avatar and their tweet and it's just tagged with that sponsored thing. So we've now seen advertising move to the complete extreme where not only does it look like content on the site, it actually is a piece of content just like any other on the site. It's just someone's paying for it to have preferential treatment at least upfront.

Patrick: I mean the third evolution of this might be interesting to consider as well to look that far into the future where if you look at like AdSense, they definitely don’t want to be compared to AdSense, but if you see what AdSense did with YouTube with the YouTube partner program where they can make money, have Google ad sales people sell on the videos, you know it may not be far off from them making partner deals with popular Twitter users to have the top ad on their page and to get a cut out of that. So maybe look for that down the line.

Patrick: I mean the third evolution of this might be interesting to consider as well to look that far into the future where if you look at like AdSense, they definitely don't want to be compared to AdSense, but if you see what AdSense did with YouTube with the YouTube partner program where they can make money, have Google ad sales people sell on the videos, you know it may not be far off from them making partner deals with popular Twitter users to have the top ad on their page and to get a cut out of that. So maybe look for that down the line.

Kevin: Well, if nothing else, it’s good to see Twitter actually making some money or about to make some money because I, for one, use it a lot and I’d hate to see it go away.

Kevin: Well, if nothing else, it's good to see Twitter actually making some money or about to make some money because I, for one, use it a lot and I'd hate to see it go away.

Patrick: Amen.

Kevin: Our last story and it’s the big one, it’s the elephant in the room. For those who’ve been listening and waiting, you might even know what it is. It’s Apple – if you listen to TechCrunch, Apple giving the middle finger to Adobe. Apple, late last week, got the press together to show off the Beta version of their new iPhone 4.0 operating system and the one thing they didn’t mention but the developers noticed almost immediately when they downloaded the Beta was a new paragraph in the developer agreement. And this is that same agreement that controls things like I mentioned before that applications must not have a language runtime in them. There’s a whole bunch of rules and Apple likes to have its own interpretation of these rules at times but they’ve added a new one and this is the infamous Section 3.3.1. It says “Applications may only use documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++ or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine and only code written in C, C++ and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the documented APIs. For example, applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited.” And the short version of that is you are not allowed to write iPhone applications using something like Adobe Flash CS5 and use their tool to translate it into an iPhone application.

Kevin: Our last story and it's the big one, it's the elephant in the room. For those who've been listening and waiting, you might even know what it is. It's Apple – if you listen to TechCrunch, Apple giving the middle finger to Adobe . Apple, late last week, got the press together to show off the Beta version of their new iPhone 4.0 operating system and the one thing they didn't mention but the developers noticed almost immediately when they downloaded the Beta was a new paragraph in the developer agreement. And this is that same agreement that controls things like I mentioned before that applications must not have a language runtime in them. There's a whole bunch of rules and Apple likes to have its own interpretation of these rules at times but they've added a new one and this is the infamous Section 3.3.1. It says “Applications may only use documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++ or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine and only code written in C, C++ and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the documented APIs. For example, applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited.” And the short version of that is you are not allowed to write iPhone applications using something like Adobe Flash CS5 and use their tool to translate it into an iPhone application.

Wow.

哇。

Brad: The issue I have with Apple and it’s not so much their policies but it’s more about how they go about announcing them and by announcing them I mean saying nothing and waiting for the backlash from the community. John Gruber has a great article kind of explaining why Apple did this. And after reading it I almost kind of agree with them and I felt like if Apple had just come out and stated this up front rather than hide it deep it in their ToS that it may have not been a big of the deal as it is now and now it’s blown up in those huge thing that everybody is talking about when I really feel like Apple could of kind headed this off at the start but they didn’t and they never do. They always just wait for somebody to find it and start blogging about it.

Brad: The issue I have with Apple and it's not so much their policies but it's more about how they go about announcing them and by announcing them I mean saying nothing and waiting for the backlash from the community. John Gruber has a great article kind of explaining why Apple did this . And after reading it I almost kind of agree with them and I felt like if Apple had just come out and stated this up front rather than hide it deep it in their ToS that it may have not been a big of the deal as it is now and now it's blown up in those huge thing that everybody is talking about when I really feel like Apple could of kind headed this off at the start but they didn't and they never do. They always just wait for somebody to find it and start blogging about it.

Kevin: I think people expect this document, this terms, this development agreement to contain technical limitations. These are all the technical restrictions that you must conform to in order for your app to run well on our phone and therefore we will approve it. But really, this is as much of as a technical document, this is a set of business rules. This document assures that Apple will be able to make as much money as possible off the iPhone OS platform from the applications that are developed and approved for it.

So yeah, reading John Gruber’s story about it, you know it does read very sensibly but what it really says at the heart of it for me is this is a business decision. Apple isn’t going to hide it, they’re not doing this for any good reason, depending on what your definition of good reason is, they’re not doing it for any technical reason anyway, they’re doing it as a business decision in order to make more money. This is a quote from that document. John Gruber says, “I’m not arguing that it’s anything other than ruthless competitiveness,” and he goes on to say, “I’m just arguing that it makes sense from Apple’s perspective and it was Apple’s decision to make.”

So yeah, reading John Gruber's story about it, you know it does read very sensibly but what it really says at the heart of it for me is this is a business decision. Apple isn't going to hide it, they're not doing this for any good reason, depending on what your definition of good reason is, they're not doing it for any technical reason anyway, they're doing it as a business decision in order to make more money. This is a quote from that document. John Gruber says, “I'm not arguing that it's anything other than ruthless competitiveness,” and he goes on to say, “I'm just arguing that it makes sense from Apple's perspective and it was Apple's decision to make.”

One upset developer actually emailed Steve Jobs after this story broke and said, “Steve, if you take a look at sites like Reddit.com, all the stories on the front page are talking about how you’ve gone insane. Are you sure about this? People aren’t happy.” And Steve Jobs actually replied to him by email and we’ve got the link to that reply and that conversation that ensued and all Steve Jobs kind of said is, “Go read John Gruber’s story because we like what he said.” So John Gruber is out there saying Apple’s not trying to do the right thing, Apple is not trying to be noble here, Apple is a business that’s trying to make money and this is a sensible decision from that standpoint. So if you didn’t agree with this because you thought Apple was a money-grubbing take-no-prisoners company, this isn’t going to change your mind. It’s just going you know what, Apple is a business, Apple does try to make money, they’re not trying to be friends with everyone and save the world, they’re trying to create a successful and profitable platform.

One upset developer actually emailed Steve Jobs after this story broke and said, “Steve, if you take a look at sites like Reddit.com, all the stories on the front page are talking about how you've gone insane. Are you sure about this? People aren't happy.” And Steve Jobs actually replied to him by email and we've got the link to that reply and that conversation that ensued and all Steve Jobs kind of said is, “Go read John Gruber's story because we like what he said.” So John Gruber is out there saying Apple's not trying to do the right thing, Apple is not trying to be noble here, Apple is a business that's trying to make money and this is a sensible decision from that standpoint. So if you didn't agree with this because you thought Apple was a money-grubbing take-no-prisoners company, this isn't going to change your mind. It's just going you know what, Apple is a business, Apple does try to make money, they're not trying to be friends with everyone and save the world, they're trying to create a successful and profitable platform.

Patrick: And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Patrick: And there's nothing wrong with that.

Brad: My argument to that point would be if you look at, say, pick a very popular Flash application, let’s say Farmville on Facebook. Farmville’s hugely popular. Now imagine if Farmville was ported over to the iPhone using Flash CS5, how many more people would be tempted to go out and buy an iPhone because they can now do their Farmville on their iPhone because of that. So I mean to say they might lose business by doing that, I don’t think it’s a very valid point because I almost think it would bring in more business because it would bring in more apps to the iPhone and a lot of these Flash apps that people live and die by on a daily basis are using these things as much as they’re using Facebook.

Brad: My argument to that point would be if you look at, say, pick a very popular Flash application, let's say Farmville on Facebook. Farmville's hugely popular. Now imagine if Farmville was ported over to the iPhone using Flash CS5, how many more people would be tempted to go out and buy an iPhone because they can now do their Farmville on their iPhone because of that. So I mean to say they might lose business by doing that, I don't think it's a very valid point because I almost think it would bring in more business because it would bring in more apps to the iPhone and a lot of these Flash apps that people live and die by on a daily basis are using these things as much as they're using Facebook.

Kevin: So taking that specific example, the other thing that John Gruber talks about in his article is that Apple’s making a play for control here as well and that if the developers of Farmville can write Farmville once in Flash and have it output very quickly as an iPhone app, then when Apple comes along and announces iPhone OS 5.0 and it has some fancy new feature that could make Farmville a lot better, the developers of Farmville aren’t going to use it right away because that feature has not yet been supported in Flash. And so it would create this delay and this one step removed level of control for Apple and it would turn the mobile device development landscape into what we have with browsers right now where a new browser can come out with a new CSS feature, we all say we’re impressed and we like the technology demos but it’s going to be five, six years before we actually see that on the Web because we have to wait for all the other browsers to catch up as well. It becomes a lowest common denominator situation and Apple doesn’t want to build a device that gives you the lowest common denominator experience. They want to stay ahead by giving you a device that gives you a better experience.

Kevin: So taking that specific example, the other thing that John Gruber talks about in his article is that Apple's making a play for control here as well and that if the developers of Farmville can write Farmville once in Flash and have it output very quickly as an iPhone app, then when Apple comes along and announces iPhone OS 5.0 and it has some fancy new feature that could make Farmville a lot better, the developers of Farmville aren't going to use it right away because that feature has not yet been supported in Flash. And so it would create this delay and this one step removed level of control for Apple and it would turn the mobile device development landscape into what we have with browsers right now where a new browser can come out with a new CSS feature, we all say we're impressed and we like the technology demos but it's going to be five, six years before we actually see that on the Web because we have to wait for all the other browsers to catch up as well. It becomes a lowest common denominator situation and Apple doesn't want to build a device that gives you the lowest common denominator experience. They want to stay ahead by giving you a device that gives you a better experience.

Kevin: But that, again, is a business decision.

Brad: Yeah. I mean I think that’s a really good point. In fact, I read a lot of articles and this is really the first article that kind of broke it down and what I felt like a non biased way and John Gruber, I think he made some great point, said before this I was fuming thinking Apple as the devil and now after reading his post, I’m kind of on the fence. You know maybe they have a point. It might be a good thing that they’re doing.

布拉德：是的 I mean I think that's a really good point. In fact, I read a lot of articles and this is really the first article that kind of broke it down and what I felt like a non biased way and John Gruber, I think he made some great point, said before this I was fuming thinking Apple as the devil and now after reading his post, I'm kind of on the fence. You know maybe they have a point. It might be a good thing that they're doing.

Kevin: Is anyone else picturing like the mob boss going, “I’m a businessman you know.”

Kevin: Is anyone else picturing like the mob boss going, “I'm a businessman you know.”

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Kevin: “I’m not a bad man, I’m just a businessman.”

Kevin: “I'm not a bad man, I'm just a businessman.”

Patrick: We need more voices from Kevin I think. Kevin, off topic but on topic, John Gruber, was he the gentleman that I was talking about a few episodes back where we talked about people cursing in their writing because I think it was him. Was that him? I don’t know because…

Kevin: I don’t know. I don’t remember that.

Kevin: I don't know. I don't remember that.

Patrick: Because there was so. We were talking about how people’s points get lost because they curse sometimes and they say things in a certain way and if it was, this writing is totally reversed from that. I don’t know if it was him. Maybe it wasn’t. It rings a bell.

Patrick: Because there was so. We were talking about how people's points get lost because they curse sometimes and they say things in a certain way and if it was, this writing is totally reversed from that. I don't know if it was him. Maybe it wasn't. It rings a bell.

Kevin: No, no, I don’t think so but yeah, definitely.

Kevin: No, no, I don't think so but yeah, definitely.

Patrick: But okay if – and it wasn’t. But this is a good piece and I think I appreciated reading it is a non Apple person and I have no problem with Apple making a business decision like this, they are a business and I think that that’s cool and that has to apply to everyone. Everyone should be able to make a business decision like Microsoft or Adobe that is best for their business. Now Apple will face a criticism that they face in some circles because Apple is a little more of a darling let’s say but they all have to play by those same business rules.

Patrick: But okay if – and it wasn't. But this is a good piece and I think I appreciated reading it is a non Apple person and I have no problem with Apple making a business decision like this, they are a business and I think that that's cool and that has to apply to everyone. Everyone should be able to make a business decision like Microsoft or Adobe that is best for their business. Now Apple will face a criticism that they face in some circles because Apple is a little more of a darling let's say but they all have to play by those same business rules.

Brad: He makes great points. So that’s kind of like, you know, my first point was why didn’t Apple just come out and state this? This is exactly why they’re doing it. They might have a lot more people on their side had they just come out and said this is what we changed, this is why we changed it and this is why we think it’s right but they didn’t’ do that. They just changed it and waited to see what everybody else said about it.

Brad: He makes great points. So that's kind of like, you know, my first point was why didn't Apple just come out and state this? This is exactly why they're doing it. They might have a lot more people on their side had they just come out and said this is what we changed, this is why we changed it and this is why we think it's right but they didn't' do that. They just changed it and waited to see what everybody else said about it.

Patrick: Does Apple want to come out and say “hello, we’re doing this because we want to make more money” or they want to let somebody else say that?

Patrick: Does Apple want to come out and say “hello, we're doing this because we want to make more money” or they want to let somebody else say that?

Brad: Well, they could it a little more PC way than that—

Patrick: Oh, a little more PC, no. It’s Mac or PC. I’m a Mac, I’m a PC.

Patrick: Oh, a little more PC, no. It's Mac or PC. I'm a Mac, I'm a PC.

Brad: I think they should have headed this off at the start.

Kevin: I got a letter from my credit card company yesterday and it contained a little pamphlet that was your updated credit card terms of use or something to that effect.

Brad: Did you read it? Did you read the whole thing?

Kevin: And it had a small letter attached to it that said “attached is your updated credit card terms of use. We’ve changed the rules about how we calculate interest on your account. Have a nice day.”

Kevin: And it had a small letter attached to it that said “attached is your updated credit card terms of use. We've changed the rules about how we calculate interest on your account. Have a nice day.”

Brad: Dun dun dunnn…

Kevin: This feels a lot like that and do you think they’ve changed the rules to my benefit? No. They’re now going to charge me interest on my interest. Thank you very much.

Kevin: This feels a lot like that and do you think they've changed the rules to my benefit? No. They're now going to charge me interest on my interest. 非常感谢你。

Patrick: I have to give Gruber credit as well to changing his tagline to “insightful and not negative” that made me laugh because that’s what Steve Jobs said in his email to that developer who was displeased. He said “we think John Gruber’s post is very insightful and not negative” and now John Gruber’s tagline is “insightful and not negative”.

Patrick: I have to give Gruber credit as well to changing his tagline to “insightful and not negative” that made me laugh because that's what Steve Jobs said in his email to that developer who was displeased. He said “we think John Gruber's post is very insightful and not negative” and now John Gruber's tagline is “insightful and not negative”.

Kevin: Beautiful, beautiful.

Patrick: That’s hilarious.

Patrick: That's hilarious.

Kevin: But let’s bring this back to the Web because we are, after all, a web podcast, not an iPhone app podcast, how does this affect Flash? The one thing we haven’t talked about in this podcast and honestly, there isn’t room for it and the reason we haven’t talked about it is that all these other stories are bigger and more interesting. Brad, do you know what I’m talking about?

Kevin: But let's bring this back to the Web because we are, after all, a web podcast, not an iPhone app podcast, how does this affect Flash? The one thing we haven't talked about in this podcast and honestly, there isn't room for it and the reason we haven't talked about it is that all these other stories are bigger and more interesting. Brad, do you know what I'm talking about?

Brad: CS5?

Kevin: CS5.

Patrick: You win, Brad.

Kevin: I feel really bad for Adobe. They’ve announced, something they only do every 18 months or so, a whole new version of their suite and this is 10 or more applications. Buying all of them will cost you two grand or whatever. Be fair, I think it’s somewhere between one and two grand if you want the Master Collection. But my goodness, all that work and what are people talking about? This one feature in Flash CS5 that it appears Apple isn’t going to let anyone use.

Kevin: I feel really bad for Adobe. They've announced, something they only do every 18 months or so, a whole new version of their suite and this is 10 or more applications. Buying all of them will cost you two grand or whatever. Be fair, I think it's somewhere between one and two grand if you want the Master Collection. But my goodness, all that work and what are people talking about? This one feature in Flash CS5 that it appears Apple isn't going to let anyone use.

Brad: I wonder if, and I haven’t looked, but I wonder if they have – Adobe has actually built apps on this feature and actually submitted them yet. I’m assuming not but it would be – you would think they’re in the trial…

Brad: I wonder if, and I haven't looked, but I wonder if they have – Adobe has actually built apps on this feature and actually submitted them yet. I'm assuming not but it would be – you would think they're in the trial…

Kevin: They’ve demoed a couple. Yeah, I think they had some partner developers who use the Beta version and submitted apps and they did get approved. So the question is are those apps going to be removed now or is it just they’re not allowing anyone new in.

Kevin: They've demoed a couple. Yeah, I think they had some partner developers who use the Beta version and submitted apps and they did get approved. So the question is are those apps going to be removed now or is it just they're not allowing anyone new in.

And looking at the Adobe blogs on this stuff, you mentioned The Flash Blog which is one of the platform evangelists at Adobe, Lee Brimelow, man, he came out firing. He wrote a post called Apple Slaps Developers in the Face and by the time I got to reading this it had already been plastered with disclaimers saying “My employer, Adobe, wishes me to let you know that this is my opinion and not theirs” and then another place, “Sentence regarding Apple’s intentions redacted at the request from Adobe”. So I can only assume here that this said something like Apple is trying to kill Adobe by any means necessary or something like that. But even after these edits, there are sentences like “Go screw yourself Apple” and “Comments disabled as I’m not interested in hearing from the Cupertino comment spam bots”.

And looking at the Adobe blogs on this stuff, you mentioned The Flash Blog which is one of the platform evangelists at Adobe, Lee Brimelow, man, he came out firing. He wrote a post called Apple Slaps Developers in the Face and by the time I got to reading this it had already been plastered with disclaimers saying “My employer, Adobe, wishes me to let you know that this is my opinion and not theirs” and then another place, “Sentence regarding Apple's intentions redacted at the request from Adobe”. So I can only assume here that this said something like Apple is trying to kill Adobe by any means necessary or something like that. But even after these edits, there are sentences like “Go screw yourself Apple” and “Comments disabled as I'm not interested in hearing from the Cupertino comment spam bots”.

Patrick: There’s hostility on both sides I think.

Patrick: There's hostility on both sides I think.

Kevin: You’re Adobe and the people you’re paying to evangelize your platform are writing this stuff. I would be feeling the exact same way in their place but you contrast this with the post several days later by Kevin Lynch, the CTO of Adobe and this post was supposed to be previewing the announcement of CS5 that was coming a couple of days later. He was like oh, ”we’re counting down to our big announcement and it’s going to be a social computing innovation. We’ve added social features through all our apps so that people who are using Photoshop can work together collaboratively on a project, it’s going to be amazing, and oh, everyone keeps asking me about this SDK thing, please let’s all keep this in context, it’s just one feature of Flash, we’re still going to release it and we’ll let Apple worry about whether they approve apps that are created using this feature or not.”

Kevin: You're Adobe and the people you're paying to evangelize your platform are writing this stuff. I would be feeling the exact same way in their place but you contrast this with the post several days later by Kevin Lynch , the CTO of Adobe and this post was supposed to be previewing the announcement of CS5 that was coming a couple of days later. He was like oh, ”we're counting down to our big announcement and it's going to be a social computing innovation. We've added social features through all our apps so that people who are using Photoshop can work together collaboratively on a project, it's going to be amazing, and oh, everyone keeps asking me about this SDK thing, please let's all keep this in context, it's just one feature of Flash, we're still going to release it and we'll let Apple worry about whether they approve apps that are created using this feature or not.”

Gosh, it really hurts to give the last word to Apple in an announcement like that.

Patrick: Of course it does. I mean I don’t know. What else they can do though right now with the situation as it is?

Patrick: Of course it does. I mean I don't know. What else they can do though right now with the situation as it is?

Brad: Pull CS5 for Apple off the shelves.

Patrick: Yeah. Well, even on the evangelist’s blog he says that they would never consider doing that because they’re not trying to hurt their loyal users and I also wanted to point out that even though the guy is an evangelist, it says on his blog that it’s his personal blog. So they can separate the man from the company necessarily but just wanted to throw that out there.

帕特里克：是的。 Well, even on the evangelist's blog he says that they would never consider doing that because they're not trying to hurt their loyal users and I also wanted to point out that even though the guy is an evangelist, it says on his blog that it's his personal blog. So they can separate the man from the company necessarily but just wanted to throw that out there.

Kevin: Yes. I think what is useful to do is to take a step aside go alright, Adobe has a war on their hands if they’re going to try and get Flash onto the iPhone and it looks like Apple is willing to change the rules, do anything necessary to block that. And so it seems clear that Adobe’s going to be forced to take a step back and refocus their efforts on stuff that they can succeed on, battles they can win and if you look at the whole rest of the suite, there’s a whole lot of exciting stuff in there and I’m looking forward to talking about it on a future podcast. I wish we could talk about it this week but this week, unfortunately, that’s not the story, much as Adobe wishes it were.

凯文：是的。 I think what is useful to do is to take a step aside go alright, Adobe has a war on their hands if they're going to try and get Flash onto the iPhone and it looks like Apple is willing to change the rules, do anything necessary to block that. And so it seems clear that Adobe's going to be forced to take a step back and refocus their efforts on stuff that they can succeed on, battles they can win and if you look at the whole rest of the suite, there's a whole lot of exciting stuff in there and I'm looking forward to talking about it on a future podcast. I wish we could talk about it this week but this week, unfortunately, that's not the story, much as Adobe wishes it were.

But you look at other stuff Adobe is doing with Apple. They’ve just released an application for Apple’s new iPad device called Adobe Ideas and this app is like a simple sketch program for sketching out some rough ideas. You’re on the subway, if you’ve got an idea for a new company logo that you want to design when you get to work, this is the app you pull out to distraction free sketch that idea up and then afterwards you can export it and put it in the Photoshop and actually start working on it properly when you get to the office.

But you look at other stuff Adobe is doing with Apple. They've just released an application for Apple's new iPad device called Adobe Ideas and this app is like a simple sketch program for sketching out some rough ideas. You're on the subway, if you've got an idea for a new company logo that you want to design when you get to work, this is the app you pull out to distraction free sketch that idea up and then afterwards you can export it and put it in the Photoshop and actually start working on it properly when you get to the office.

So Adobe still has stuff to contribute here and the stuff that they’re building that isn’t being blocked by Apple is still really interesting and I think will have a promising future on Apple devices. It just can’t be Flash I don’t think.

So Adobe still has stuff to contribute here and the stuff that they're building that isn't being blocked by Apple is still really interesting and I think will have a promising future on Apple devices. It just can't be Flash I don't think.

At least according to Apple. Flash still does have some friends here and Google seems to be one of them because – and this came just the day after our last news podcast. For those who have heard about this, this might seem like old news but I think it’s especially relevant in this discussion and, Brad, you spotted this, right?

At least according to Apple. Flash still does have some friends here and Google seems to be one of them because – and this came just the day after our last news podcast. For those who have heard about this, this might seem like old news but I think it's especially relevant in this discussion and, Brad, you spotted this, right?

Brad: Um, sure. So basically, Google’s going to build Flash into the Chrome browsers rather than being a separate install that you need to go do after you install Chrome, it will actually be a part of the installer which is the first browser to do so I believe.

Brad: Um, sure. So basically, Google's going to build Flash into the Chrome browsers rather than being a separate install that you need to go do after you install Chrome, it will actually be a part of the installer which is the first browser to do so I believe.

Kevin: So is it actually still going to be the Flash plugin that Adobe writes? It’s just going to be bundled into the installer?

Kevin: So is it actually still going to be the Flash plugin that Adobe writes? It's just going to be bundled into the installer?

Brad: As far as I know, yes.

Kevin: Because yeah, this is where it gets interesting. If Apple is blocking Flash from its devices but Google comes in and goes we’re going to embrace Flash wholeheartedly and the places where it’s slow we’re going to work to make our browser better for that. Because they made this weird vague announcement last year that they were going to build this Google native API thing, this Chrome native API thing and people have theorized that this is for their Chrome OS but they’re going to allow developers to build high performance native applications that run as parts of the browser. And if they do this for Flash and this is how I’m interpreting this announcement, they may not have come right out and said it but I think Google is actually going to rebuild the parts of Flash that are slow and show off just how good Flash can be if they have the support of the browser that it’s running in rather than having to fight them tooth and nail. And it could become – like Flash could be amazing if Google does a good job of this. It’s really going to polarize the argument.

Kevin: Because yeah, this is where it gets interesting. If Apple is blocking Flash from its devices but Google comes in and goes we're going to embrace Flash wholeheartedly and the places where it's slow we're going to work to make our browser better for that. Because they made this weird vague announcement last year that they were going to build this Google native API thing, this Chrome native API thing and people have theorized that this is for their Chrome OS but they're going to allow developers to build high performance native applications that run as parts of the browser. And if they do this for Flash and this is how I'm interpreting this announcement, they may not have come right out and said it but I think Google is actually going to rebuild the parts of Flash that are slow and show off just how good Flash can be if they have the support of the browser that it's running in rather than having to fight them tooth and nail. And it could become – like Flash could be amazing if Google does a good job of this. It's really going to polarize the argument.

Patrick: Well, also, Google owns like 99% of web video and their sites run on Flash. So I don’t know if that’s a part of this or not but YouTube, Google Video, obviously, big Flash sites, YouTube, one of the top sites in the world of course so I don’t know if there’s something to that as well but obviously, it’s not all bad news for Flash.

Patrick: Well, also, Google owns like 99% of web video and their sites run on Flash. So I don't know if that's a part of this or not but YouTube, Google Video, obviously, big Flash sites, YouTube, one of the top sites in the world of course so I don't know if there's something to that as well but obviously, it's not all bad news for Flash.

Kevin: CNET that wrote up this story says that one of the interesting details that’s related to this is that Google is working on overhauling, they’ve previously announced this, overhauling the API that is used for building browser plugins and this is called NPAPI for Netscape Plugin Application Programming Interface and the last announcement on that is that both Adobe and Firefox, Mozilla have announced support for this new effort as well. So if Google does all this work based on this new API, this turbo charged Flash plugin could drop right into Firefox too.

Kevin: CNET that wrote up this story says that one of the interesting details that's related to this is that Google is working on overhauling, they've previously announced this, overhauling the API that is used for building browser plugins and this is called NPAPI for Netscape Plugin Application Programming Interface and the last announcement on that is that both Adobe and Firefox, Mozilla have announced support for this new effort as well. So if Google does all this work based on this new API, this turbo charged Flash plugin could drop right into Firefox too.

You know much as Apple would like to put the final nail in the coffin to Flash, it looks like it’s still got a lot of life left in it at least in other browsers. Imagine if Safari on the desktop decided to support this new API too and wow, Apple was supporting Flash with one hand and smacking them with the other. It’s a really confusing landscape at the moment and if you’re a developer trying to decide whether to invest in Flash as a technology for the next five years or not, man, that’s a hard decision to make right now.

You know much as Apple would like to put the final nail in the coffin to Flash, it looks like it's still got a lot of life left in it at least in other browsers. Imagine if Safari on the desktop decided to support this new API too and wow, Apple was supporting Flash with one hand and smacking them with the other. It's a really confusing landscape at the moment and if you're a developer trying to decide whether to invest in Flash as a technology for the next five years or not, man, that's a hard decision to make right now.

And just to muddy the waters further, the last little tidbit I wanted to mention this week is AdLib, which appears to be a secret API that Apple has in the Mobile Safari browser, at least on the iPad. If you go and look at the help documentation for the iPad, I think I’m reading that right, it opens up in the browser but within that browser window, there are buttons and sliding panels that are actually native user interface elements on that device. And this is something developers never been able to dove for. If you wanted a button on your iPhone version of your website that look like an iPhone button, you created an image that look like an iPhone button and wrote as much as JavaScript as you could to make it behave like an iPhone button but you’d never quite get there. These native controls, you get all the way there and if developers are able to use this AdLib API themselves, you can build applications with native iPhone user interfaces in the browser and not be subject to Apple’s approval process for their App Store.

And just to muddy the waters further, the last little tidbit I wanted to mention this week is AdLib, which appears to be a secret API that Apple has in the Mobile Safari browser, at least on the iPad. If you go and look at the help documentation for the iPad, I think I'm reading that right, it opens up in the browser but within that browser window, there are buttons and sliding panels that are actually native user interface elements on that device. And this is something developers never been able to dove for. If you wanted a button on your iPhone version of your website that look like an iPhone button, you created an image that look like an iPhone button and wrote as much as JavaScript as you could to make it behave like an iPhone button but you'd never quite get there. These native controls, you get all the way there and if developers are able to use this AdLib API themselves, you can build applications with native iPhone user interfaces in the browser and not be subject to Apple's approval process for their App Store.

It’s really early days to say, Brad, but does this open a new door?

It's really early days to say, Brad, but does this open a new door?

Brad: Yeah, that’s possible. I don’t have an iPad and I haven’t actually seen a video of how this works so I’ve only kind of read the description of it but it definitely sounds pretty interesting. It could kind of close that gap between websites and web apps.

Brad: Yeah, that's possible. I don't have an iPad and I haven't actually seen a video of how this works so I've only kind of read the description of it but it definitely sounds pretty interesting. It could kind of close that gap between websites and web apps.

Kevin: Yeah, like when the iPhone first came out, I think it was the original author of Firebug, his name escapes me a at the moment, Joe Hewitt, he went on to write the Facebook iPhone app and the Facebook iPhone website as well but he very quickly released an open source toolkit. It was just a bunch of images and JavaScript code for faking iPhone native user interfaces using web technologies. And if that no longer becomes necessary, you may not end up writing games still, but if you wanted to write an application that Apple wasn’t likely to approve, I think this gets you even closer to being on even footing with the apps that sit in the App Store.

Kevin: Yeah, like when the iPhone first came out, I think it was the original author of Firebug, his name escapes me a at the moment, Joe Hewitt, he went on to write the Facebook iPhone app and the Facebook iPhone website as well but he very quickly released an open source toolkit. It was just a bunch of images and JavaScript code for faking iPhone native user interfaces using web technologies. And if that no longer becomes necessary, you may not end up writing games still, but if you wanted to write an application that Apple wasn't likely to approve, I think this gets you even closer to being on even footing with the apps that sit in the App Store.

Anyway, just a little tidbit, people haven’t even figured out if this is something Apple’s going to document or release yet but I thought it played in to the story there. So that’s it, guys. iPhone story closed. We can’t talk about iPhone for another six months, deal?

Anyway, just a little tidbit, people haven't even figured out if this is something Apple's going to document or release yet but I thought it played in to the story there. So that's it, guys. iPhone story closed. We can't talk about iPhone for another six months, deal?

Patrick: Yay.

Brad: We’ll see how long that lasts.

Brad: We'll see how long that lasts.

Kevin: Yeah, so we better not have any iPhone things in our host spotlights guys. Patrick, what have you got for us?

Patrick: Well, my spotlight actually isn’t new. I think it’s a couple of months old but I was just turned on to it by the SitePoint Facebook page where they share images, a picture of our co-host, Kevin Yank during the forum upgrade at sitepoint.com/forums/holding.php. We’ll link that in the show notes but basically, the forums were upgraded the last couple of months and there’s a camera here that purports to be live that has some awesome pictures of Kevin randomly displaying through it. But really, the better part is the photo gallery on Facebook, and we’ll throw a link to that in as well, where they posted of all the stills that Kevin took purportedly during the upgrade but I think we all know the real process to distract people. So yeah, that’s a lot of fun there. I think we need more voices and more faces from Kevin.

Patrick: Well, my spotlight actually isn't new. I think it's a couple of months old but I was just turned on to it by the SitePoint Facebook page where they share images, a picture of our co-host, Kevin Yank during the forum upgrade at sitepoint.com/forums/holding.php. We'll link that in the show notes but basically, the forums were upgraded the last couple of months and there's a camera here that purports to be live that has some awesome pictures of Kevin randomly displaying through it. But really, the better part is the photo gallery on Facebook , and we'll throw a link to that in as well, where they posted of all the stills that Kevin took purportedly during the upgrade but I think we all know the real process to distract people. So yeah, that's a lot of fun there. I think we need more voices and more faces from Kevin.

Kevin: Patrick was a little cagey about what his spotlight was going to be before we recorded this and now I understand why. Brad?

Brad: iPhone OS— no, I’m kidding.

Brad: iPhone OS— no, I'm kidding.

Patrick: iPhone for WordPress.

Brad: My host spotlight is most people who listen probably know I’m a WordPress junkie, so WordPress 3.0 beta 1 has been released and there’s a lot of really cool new features in version 3.0 such as there’s a new default theme and yeah, it’s called 2010 and they’ve actually removed the original or the current default Kubrick and Classic. So when you download 3.0, those will not be included anymore.

Brad: My host spotlight is most people who listen probably know I'm a WordPress junkie, so WordPress 3.0 beta 1 has been released and there's a lot of really cool new features in version 3.0 such as there's a new default theme and yeah, it's called 2010 and they've actually removed the original or the current default Kubrick and Classic. So when you download 3.0, those will not be included anymore.

WordPress MU is now merged into the WordPress code base. So just by hitting a couple of switches, you can basically turn on the MU functionality which is now called multisite so it’s all one codebase. There’s a completely new menu management system which makes it extremely easy to make different types of menus with pages and categories and external links and then there’s custom post type enhancements which are basically a way to create different types of content within WordPress. So rather than just posting pages, you could create maybe a bars post type or a cars post type or whatever it may be. So you can kind of turns it more into a CMS type of a system. So now is the best time, if you’ve ever thought about getting involved in WordPress development or testing. You know testing out the beta is one of the quickest and easiest ways to really dive in and help find bugs. So we’ll post a link on the show notes to the beta and the final release date for WordPress 3.0 is scheduled for May 1st as long as there’s no more delays. So definitely check that out.

WordPress MU is now merged into the WordPress code base. So just by hitting a couple of switches, you can basically turn on the MU functionality which is now called multisite so it's all one codebase. There's a completely new menu management system which makes it extremely easy to make different types of menus with pages and categories and external links and then there's custom post type enhancements which are basically a way to create different types of content within WordPress. So rather than just posting pages, you could create maybe a bars post type or a cars post type or whatever it may be. So you can kind of turns it more into a CMS type of a system. So now is the best time, if you've ever thought about getting involved in WordPress development or testing. You know testing out the beta is one of the quickest and easiest ways to really dive in and help find bugs. So we'll post a link on the show notes to the beta and the final release date for WordPress 3.0 is scheduled for May 1st as long as there's no more delays. So definitely check that out.

Kevin: That post type thing is really interesting because on the SitePoint blog, for example, we use it for blog posts most of the time but every once in a while we have a post for our podcast show of the week and yeah, having a different post type for the podcast so that it displayed entirely differently in our blog list, for example, would make a whole lot of sense.

Brad: Yeah, I mean between that and custom taxonomies. It really is kind of a game changer for WordPress and it’s going to be able to compete on the platform of things like Drupal and some other real CMS type systems. So it’s really, really exciting in WordPress land at the moment.

Brad: Yeah, I mean between that and custom taxonomies. It really is kind of a game changer for WordPress and it's going to be able to compete on the platform of things like Drupal and some other real CMS type systems. So it's really, really exciting in WordPress land at the moment.

Kevin: Yeah. My host spotlight, I’ve actually been head down working on some projects internally at SitePoint so I haven’t had a chance to pick my head up and look around a lot this week and I don’t want to spotlight something like Opera Mini for the iPhone that we’ve already talked about especially since we’re not meant to be covering iPhone in these spotlights. So what I’d like to show is one of the things that the team at SitePoint has been working on for the past week and if you go to sitepoint.com/blogs, we’ve launched a whole new redesign of the blog section of sitepoint.com and a lot of you probably read through RSS readers and aren’t even accustomed to coming to the site to see our blog design but I think it’s worth at least one visit to take a look at all the work we’ve done.

凯文：是的。 My host spotlight, I've actually been head down working on some projects internally at SitePoint so I haven't had a chance to pick my head up and look around a lot this week and I don't want to spotlight something like Opera Mini for the iPhone that we've already talked about especially since we're not meant to be covering iPhone in these spotlights. So what I'd like to show is one of the things that the team at SitePoint has been working on for the past week and if you go to sitepoint.com/blogs , we've launched a whole new redesign of the blog section of sitepoint.com and a lot of you probably read through RSS readers and aren't even accustomed to coming to the site to see our blog design but I think it's worth at least one visit to take a look at all the work we've done.

For those who might be asking, yes, this is a WordPress blog under the hood and yeah, we just basically built a whole new theme and added a whole bunch of features and we’re really proud of the work that was done here. So check it out, the new redesigned SitePoint blogs. It’s a kind of a peek at what’s coming design-wise for all of SitePoint over the coming weeks and months.

For those who might be asking, yes, this is a WordPress blog under the hood and yeah, we just basically built a whole new theme and added a whole bunch of features and we're really proud of the work that was done here. So check it out, the new redesigned SitePoint blogs. It's a kind of a peek at what's coming design-wise for all of SitePoint over the coming weeks and months.

Patrick: I actually saw it I think right before it was announced. I probably got lucky and caught it like the day of launch and I thought it was really, really nice so look forward to seeing how that is rolled out across the rest of the site.

Kevin: Yup. Alright, so that brings us to the end of the show but just before we go, Patrick has some exciting news about a very special show coming up.

Patrick: Right. So in about a month, May 21st and 22nd I believe in Raleigh, North Carolina, Brad and I will be – it’s actually May 22nd and 23rd in Raleigh, North Carolina, me and Brad will be speaking at WordCamp Raleigh. WordCamp is a conference focused on WordPress. So all topics to do with customizing WordPress, making it do whatever you want and also related topics on blogging and so on and also, Stephan, our usual co-host, Stephan Segraves, will be attending as well.

帕特里克：对。 So in about a month, May 21st and 22nd I believe in Raleigh, North Carolina, Brad and I will be – it's actually May 22nd and 23rd in Raleigh, North Carolina, me and Brad will be speaking at WordCamp Raleigh . WordCamp is a conference focused on WordPress. So all topics to do with customizing WordPress, making it do whatever you want and also related topics on blogging and so on and also, Stephan, our usual co-host, Stephan Segraves, will be attending as well.

So it will be the first time that three of the four SitePoint podcast hosts will be in the same place at the same time. Obviously, Kevin being in Australia can’t make it all the way out here and we’re sorry not to have him. We don’t have the budget…

So it will be the first time that three of the four SitePoint podcast hosts will be in the same place at the same time. Obviously, Kevin being in Australia can't make it all the way out here and we're sorry not to have him. We don't have the budget…

Brad: We’ll think of you.

Brad: We'll think of you.

Patrick: We don’t have the budget but because three of us are going to be in the same spot for the same time, we’re going to do a special live show of the SitePoint Podcast as part of WordCamp Raleigh. It’s going to be a two-hour live show. We’re going to broadcast it on a SitePoint’s USTREAM channel. Link to that coming soon but we’re going to have a live audience there. If you are in the area of Raleigh, North Carolina, maybe a few hours within, you should definitely come and check it out and hang out with us. We’re going to have a live audience and we’re going to give away probably over a thousand dollars worth of books, premium plugins and theme licenses, we have some good guests lined up, WordPress, book authors, podcast hosts and speakers at the conference and it should be a lot of fun to be able to do a live show. We’ll obviously be thinking of Kevin and we’ll be doing some book promotion for Kevin too while we’re there. But it will be a lot of fun and if you are interested in attending, there’s a special coupon code you can use on wordcampraleigh.com. It’s sitepoint15, for 15% off the ticket price which is already a pretty low amount of $35.

Patrick: We don't have the budget but because three of us are going to be in the same spot for the same time, we're going to do a special live show of the SitePoint Podcast as part of WordCamp Raleigh. It's going to be a two-hour live show. We're going to broadcast it on a SitePoint's USTREAM channel. Link to that coming soon but we're going to have a live audience there. If you are in the area of Raleigh, North Carolina, maybe a few hours within, you should definitely come and check it out and hang out with us. We're going to have a live audience and we're going to give away probably over a thousand dollars worth of books, premium plugins and theme licenses, we have some good guests lined up, WordPress, book authors, podcast hosts and speakers at the conference and it should be a lot of fun to be able to do a live show. We'll obviously be thinking of Kevin and we'll be doing some book promotion for Kevin too while we're there. But it will be a lot of fun and if you are interested in attending, there's a special coupon code you can use on wordcampraleigh.com . It's sitepoint15, for 15% off the ticket price which is already a pretty low amount of $35.

Kevin: Wow. Yeah, and of course we will be releasing at least parts of that live show on the regular podcast feed but if you want to get the whole thing live and uncut and see Patrick and Brad and Stephan in their unedited glory, be sure to tune in live.

凯文：哇。 Yeah, and of course we will be releasing at least parts of that live show on the regular podcast feed but if you want to get the whole thing live and uncut and see Patrick and Brad and Stephan in their unedited glory, be sure to tune in live.

Patrick: Maybe we can have an editor come down with us.

Brad: It sure to be interesting.

Kevin: I know all this thing up late to watch guys so I’ll be in there in spirit if not in person.

Kevin: I know all this thing up late to watch guys so I'll be in there in spirit if not in person.

Patrick: Well, we have to get that together, maybe South by Southwest.

Kevin: So that’s the end of this marathon episode of the SitePoint podcast. You can find me on Twitter @sentience and you can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom. Guys, where are you?

Kevin: So that's the end of this marathon episode of the SitePoint podcast. You can find me on Twitter @sentience and you can find SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom . Guys, where are you?

Brad: Brad Williams, blog is Strangework.com and Twitter @williamsba.

Brad: Brad Williams, blog is Strangework.com and Twitter @williamsba .

Patrick: And I’m Patrick O’Keefe for the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com, on Twitter @iFroggy.

Patrick: And I'm Patrick O'Keefe for the iFroggy Network, ifroggy.com , on Twitter @iFroggy .

Kevin: You can visit the SitePoint Podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast, which has that same blog redesign I mentioned before, to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint podcast this week is produced by Karn Broad and I’m Kevin Yank.

Kevin: You can visit the SitePoint Podcast at sitepoint.com/podcast , which has that same blog redesign I mentioned before, to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint podcast this week is produced by Karn Broad and I'm Kevin Yank.

Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.

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翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-57-not-negative/