SitePoint播客＃108：Kevin的最后一场演出

Episode 108 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week your hosts are Kevin Yank (@sentience), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy, and Brad Williams (@williamsba).

SitePoint Podcast的第108集现已发布！本周的主持人是Kevin Yank( @sentience )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy和Brad Williams( @williamsba ))。

下载此剧集 (Download This Episode)

You can also download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您也可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。这是链接：

SitePoint Podcast #108: Kevin’s Last Show (MP3, 51.1MB, 53:10)

SitePoint播客＃108：Kevin的最后一场演出 (MP3，51.1MB，53:10)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主题：

The latest browser trends
最新的浏览器趋势
Adobe’s Creative Suite available on subscription
可以订阅Adobe的Creative Suite
What can we learn from a nameless log0?
我们从无名log0中学到什么？
The Guardian migrates to Scala
守护者迁移到Scala
Mozilla ends support for embedding the Gecko rendering engine in other applications
Mozilla终止了将Gecko渲染引擎嵌入其他应用程序的支持

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/108.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/108中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

Kevin: Take Five

凯文：拿五
Patrick: D.A.’s “Play Your Part” Music Video

帕特里克： DA的“扮演自己的角色”音乐视频
Stephan: Mike Monteiro | F*ck You, Pay Me

斯蒂芬：迈克·蒙泰罗| 拜托你，付我钱
Brad: HTML11

布拉德： HTML11

显示成绩单 (Show Transcript)

Kevin: And I just barely made it here today for the SitePoint Podcast, guys, thanks for waiting for me.

凯文：今天我刚刚在这里参加SitePoint播客，谢谢您等我。

Brad: Thanks for showing up.

布拉德：谢谢你的出现。

Kevin: I come to you wetted by the tempest that is currently pounding Melbourne.

凯文：我来找你，目睹墨尔本目前正在猛烈袭击。

Stephan: We’re gonna have to buy you a canoe.

斯蒂芬：我们得给你买个独木舟。

Kevin: Buckets of rain out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it’s an especially special episode for me for several reasons. First of all let’s get this out of the way; it is my birthday, so happy birthday to me.

凯文：外面有几桶雨。耶耶耶。对我来说，这是一个特别的插曲，原因有几个。首先，让我们解决这个问题；这是我的生日，我生日快乐。

Patrick: Happy Birthday.

帕特里克：生日快乐。

Stephan: Happy Birthday.

斯蒂芬：生日快乐。

Brad: Happy Birthday.

布拉德：生日快乐。

Kevin: Thank you. Thank you very much guys (laughter).

凯文：谢谢。非常感谢你们(笑声)。

Patrick: The best start to a birthday ever I’m sure.

帕特里克：我确定生日最好的开始。

Kevin: Yeah, well you know, I consider it my right as birthday boy to be half an hour late to this podcast if I want. But the other reason this is a special one is this is going to be my last episode as lead host I suppose of this show. My time has been increasingly shifting away from the day-to-day of SitePoint and onto this new site, Learnable.com, that we’ve been putting together for online courses. And for that reason I think it makes sense for me to hand over the reigns to the people like you guys who are still actively invested in SitePoint, and I’m happy to continue to be a regular face on this show, but I think the man running the show from this point forward is going to be someone that you’ve been getting familiar with over the past few weeks and that’s Louis Simoneau. He’s done our last few interview episodes and I think in two weeks time for the next news show you guys are going to be joined by him and have him filling my shoes.

凯文：是的，你知道，如果我愿意，我以生日男孩的身份有权利迟到这个播客半小时。但是，这是一个特别原因的另一个原因是，这将是我作为这场演出的主持人的最后一集。我的时间已经越来越多地从日常的SitePoint转移到了我们一直在网上学习的新站点Learnable.com。因此，我认为将统治权移交给仍在积极投资SitePoint的像你们这样的人是很有意义的，我很高兴继续在本次展览中成为常客，但我认为从现在开始主持节目的人将是您在过去几周内逐渐熟悉的人，那就是路易斯·西蒙诺(Louis Simoneau)。他已经完成了我们的最后几集采访，我想在两周后的下一个新闻节目中，你们将和他在一起，让他为我加油。

Patrick: Yeah, that’s correct, it’ll be different, right; I looked over the schedule today and what did I say, Brad, two years, five months and nine days I think is how long we’ll have gone from episode one to episode 108, all four of us.

帕特里克：是的，这是正确的，会有所不同，对吧。我仔细看了一下今天的时间表，我说了什么，布拉德，两年零五个月零九天，我想我们从第一集到第108集要花多长时间。

Brad: Unbelievable.

布拉德：不可思议。

Patrick: Yeah, it is, and I think I speak for all three of us when I say that it’s been a lot of fun sharing this with you, and we appreciate all of your support and have been thankful to be able to get to know you better and obviously we’re going to keep in touch, but it’s going to be different without you on it.

帕特里克：是的，当我说与您分享这件事很有趣时，我想我代表我们三个人发言，我们感谢您的所有支持，并感谢您能够了解我您会更好，显然我们会保持联系，但是如果没有您，情况会有所不同。

Kevin: Well, yeah, I really look forward to doing many more podcasts with you guys.

凯文：嗯，是的，我非常期待与你们做更多的播客。

Patrick: Well, let’s not go crazy, we’re done now (laughter), I’m just kidding.

帕特里克：好吧，我们不要发疯，我们现在完成了(笑)，我只是在开玩笑。

Kevin: What! You said I could stay on.

凯文：什么！你说我可以继续。

Patrick: Let’s not go crazy now.

帕特里克：让我们现在不发疯。

Kevin: (Laughs) yeah, well, yep, things are changing and of course we’d love to hear any feedback from the audience but, yeah, I hope to continue to check in on the show as often as I can, but please give a warm welcome to Louis Simoneau in a couple of weeks time when he will be wrangling the decks, wrangling the Skype’s as they say, and making it all happen here from you. So without further ado let’s dive into some stories, guys, I’m still drying myself off here so who’s got a story to start us off?

凯文：(笑)是的，是的，情况正在发生变化，我们当然希望听到观众的任何反馈，但是，是的，我希望继续尽可能多地收看演出，但请在几周的时间里，Louis Simoneau会热情地欢迎他，他将在甲板上吵架，在Skype上吵架，正如他们所说的那样，一切都会在这里发生。因此，事不宜迟，让我们深入探讨一些故事，伙计们，我仍然在这里干drying自己，所以谁有一个故事可以开始我们？

Brad: Yeah, I got some browser trends, a Statcounter report was released in March and there’s actually some interesting numbers on it that I thought would be fun to chat about.

布拉德：是的，我得到了一些浏览器趋势，3月发布了Statcounter报告，实际上上面有一些有趣的数字，我认为聊天很有趣。

Kevin: This is the blog post on SitePoint that you’re talking about.

凯文：这是您正在谈论的有关SitePoint的博客文章。

Brad: Yeah, it’s a blog post by Craig Buckler, one of the resident bloggers who has some really awesome articles that we seem to talk about quite a bit. He released, or blogged about the Statcounter report that was released for March 2011, and this is actually market share, but what’s interesting is both that Internet Explorer 9 and Firefox 4 both came out, so it’s interesting to see the kind of numbers that jumped for both of those, and Firefox 4 for March of 2011 rose 2.34%, so the month it was released. Do you remember exactly what day that came out?

布拉德：是的，这是常驻博客作者之一克雷格·巴克勒(Craig Buckler)的博客文章，其中有一些非常棒的文章，我们似乎在谈论很多。他发布了或发布了有关Statcounter报告(于2011年3月发布)的博客，实际上这是市场份额，但有趣的是Internet Explorer 9和Firefox 4都问世了，所以很有趣的是看到这种数字跃升两者均如此，而2011年3月的Firefox 4增长了2.34％，因此它在发布的当月就出现了。您还记得确切的日期吗？

Kevin: Yeah, yeah, it was late in March; March 22^nd is when it was released, so they only had like a week.

凯文：是的，三月下旬。 3月22日^第二是当它被释放，所以他们只有像一个星期。

Brad: Yeah. So I think, well, that’s obviously why it’s on the lower end but it’s still a significant jump.

布拉德：是的因此，我认为，很明显，这就是为什么它处于较低端的原因，但它仍然是一个巨大的飞跃。

Kevin: So it went from 0.93%, which would’ve been like the beta users, to 2.34%, so they more than tripled their market share, Firefox 4, in March, in one week.

凯文(Kevin)：因此，它从测试版用户的0.93％上升到2.34％，因此他们在一周内的三月份Firefox 4的市场份额增长了两倍多。

Brad: In one week. It’s impressive, very impressive. And the fact that Firefox 4 and IE 9 for that matter came out without a force upgrade, so it’s not a required upgrade, so it’s really just kind of developers, early adopters that are actually doing it, it’s pretty impressive for Firefox. I think we all were kind of wondering what was going to happen when 4 came out because a lot of people, especially a lot of people, the more tech savvy crowd, have kind of jumped ship over to Chrome, I know I have, Kevin you’ve been playing with it a little bit.

布拉德：一周内。令人印象深刻，非常令人印象深刻。事实证明，Firefox 4和IE 9无需强制升级就可以发布，因此这不是必需的升级，因此它实际上只是一种开发人员，实际上是早期采用者，对于Firefox而言，这确实令人印象深刻。我想我们都想知道当4发行时会发生什么，因为很多人，尤其是很多人，更精通技术的人群，跳到了Chrome，我知道我有，Kevin您一直在玩它。

Patrick: Fickle.

帕特里克：善变。

Brad: Everybody but Patrick.

布拉德：除了帕特里克，所有人。

Kevin: Playing with it, still thinking about it, not on it just yet.

凯文：玩着它，还在思考着它，而不是现在。

Brad: IE 9 on the other hand in February had .48% and they jumped to .75%, so just over a .25% change, so on the low end, and actually IE 9 came out earlier in the month; I believe it came out at South by Southwest.

布拉德：另一方面，2月份IE 9的增幅为0.48％，跃升至0.75％，因此变化幅度仅为0.25％，因此处于低端，实际上IE 9于本月初问世。我相信它是在西南偏南出现的。

Patrick: Yep, that’s correct.

帕特里克：是的，是的。

Kevin: That is a bizarre number, so that came out, yeah, March 15^th.

凯文：这是一个奇怪的数字，所以出来了，是的，3月15 ^日。

Patrick: Yep, got the green t-shirt fresh from Austin.

帕特里克：是的 ，从奥斯汀那里买来的绿色T恤衫是新鲜的。

Kevin: So that’s a bizarre number that they — you look at Firefox 4 when they had one week of release time they basically, they took all of their beta users and they tripled the size of their user base by releasing their browser, whereas Internet Explorer 9 by releasing that browser they didn’t even dumble, they just sort of added 50%. So the number of new users who started using Internet Explorer 9 because of its release is smaller than the number of people who were already using Internet Explorer 9 pre-release, that seems really low.

凯文：所以这是一个离奇的数字-当您浏览Firefox 4时，基本上他们拥有一个星期的发布时间，他们使用了所有beta用户，并且通过发布浏览器将他们的用户群扩大了三倍，而Internet Explorer 9通过发布他们甚至没有涉足的浏览器，他们只是增加了50％。因此，由于Internet Explorer 9的发布而开始使用Internet Explorer 9的新用户数量要少于已经使用Internet Explorer 9的预发布版本的用户数量，这似乎很少。

Brad: Yeah, it’s definitely not good for Microsoft, and I think it does go back to the fact that it is these early adopters and the more tech savvy crowd that would upgrade to something that just came out, but those users aren’t using Internet Explorer, you know, those users are on Firefox or Chrome.

布拉德：是的，这绝对对微软不利，我认为这确实可以追溯到以下事实：正是这些早期采用者和技术娴熟的人群会升级到刚刚推出的产品，但这些用户并未使用您知道，Internet Explorer是使用Firefox或Chrome的用户。

Kevin: So it’s interesting to point out that all of these numbers we’re talking about are market share percentages, and so the article does a good job of pointing out the fact that the entire user base of the Internet is growing usually much faster than fluctuations in individual browser market share, and so a browser like Internet Explorer 8, for example, can drop market share slightly but still have gained users overall in a given month because the Internet user base is growing so quickly. But nevertheless as a percentage of market share, Internet Explorer 9 gained a smaller percentage by releasing, they already had captured in their beta phase. Is it the fact that no one upgrades Internet Explorer until Windows auto update tells you to do it?

凯文：所以有趣的是，我们正在谈论的所有这些数字都是市场份额百分比，因此，这篇文章很好地指出了整个互联网用户群的增长速度通常比增长速度快得多的事实。各个浏览器市场份额的波动，因此，例如Internet Explorer 8这样的浏览器可能会略微下降市场份额，但由于Internet用户群的增长如此之快，因此在给定的月份内仍然获得了总体用户。但是，尽管占市场份额的百分比，但Internet Explorer 9通过发布获得了较小的百分比，他们已经处于beta阶段。是在Windows自动更新告诉您执行此操作之前没有人升级Internet Explorer的事实吗？

Brad: I think so. I mean I think the users that wouldn’t do it are only going to upgrade if they’re forced to, they’re not going to go out and say hey I want update to Internet Explorer 9. Again, it goes back to not even knowing what a browser is, you know, all they know is they go online and surf the Internet, they don’t know that they’re using Internet Explorer or whatever it is that they have.

布拉德：我是这样认为的。我的意思是，我认为不会这样做的用户只会在被迫升级的情况下升级，他们不会出去说嘿我想更新到Internet Explorer9。再次，它返回了即使知道浏览器是什么，您也知道，他们只能上网浏览Internet，也不知道他们使用的是Internet Explorer还是现有的浏览器。

Patrick: Or update their Google.

帕特里克：或者更新他们的Google。

Stephan: They don’t understand where AOL is anymore so, you know.

斯蒂芬：他们不知道AOL在哪里，所以，你知道。

Patrick: A new browser for them was when Google expanded their text input to be that wide and that large on the homepage, so that was an upgrade, sarcasm.

帕特里克(Patrick)：对他们来说，一种新的浏览器是Google将其文本输入扩大到主页上的那个宽而又大的时候，这是一种讽刺。

Kevin: Well, yeah. But this is a perfect illustration of the difference between Internet Explorer users and Firefox users; Firefox users with no auto update from Firefox 3.5 to 4 have migrated en masse, and, in fact, Firefox 3.5 in the same period only lost 5% of its existing market share, whereas Firefox 4, yeah, I suppose that could work out because those percentages could be roughly equal, but you know Firefox users what we’re seeing here migrate en masse when a new version comes out even without an auto update in place, whereas Internet Explorer users it seems barely budge. I suppose this says that people who care about what browser they’re using or what version of the browser they’re using are not using Internet Explorer.

凯文：恩，是的。但这完美地说明了Internet Explorer用户和Firefox用户之间的区别。不能从Firefox 3.5到4进行自动更新的Firefox用户已经大规模迁移，实际上，同期的Firefox 3.5仅失去了其现有市场份额的5％，而Firefox 4，是的，我想这可能是因为这些百分比可能大致相等，但是您知道Firefox用户在没有自动更新的情况下在新版本发布时便会大规模迁移，而Internet Explorer用户似乎勉强接受。我想这就是说，关心他们使用的浏览器或浏览器的版本的人没有使用Internet Explorer。

Patrick: Ouch.

帕特里克：哎呀。

Kevin: And Internet Explorer is the browser for people who don’t want to have to worry about their browser, I mean that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

凯文： Internet Explorer是不需要担心浏览器的人使用的浏览器，我的意思是这不一定是一件坏事。

Patrick: Not the second part, the first part was; well, if you don’t give a damn about what you’re using IE is the one for you, no, I’m just kidding.

帕特里克：不是第二部分，第一部分是；好吧，如果您不介意您正在使用的IE，那么不，我只是在开玩笑。

Kevin: Well, you know what I mean; it’s like the car for people who don’t want to have to look under the hood.

凯文：恩，你知道我的意思吗？对于那些不想在引擎盖下看的人来说，这就像一辆汽车。

Patrick: Yeah, no, I’m just messing with you. But I haven’t even upgraded Firefox myself so I don’t know, I guess that speaks to what crowd I fall into.

帕特里克：是的，不，我只是在惹你。但是我本人甚至都没有升级Firefox，所以我不知道，我想这能说明我属于哪些人群。

Stephan: It’s like the Mac for us, Kevin, that’s what it is.

斯蒂芬：就像我们的Mac一样，凯文(Kevin)就是这样。

Patrick: Now you’re going to get Mac users upset.

帕特里克(Patrick)：现在，您将使Mac用户不高兴。

Kevin: I don’t know about that; I love looking under the hood of my Mac, Stephan.

凯文：我不知道。我喜欢在Mac Mac的底下看，Stephan。

Stephan: I knew that was going to be the self-deprecating humor (laughter).

斯蒂芬：我知道那将是自嘲的幽默(笑声)。

Brad: You know it’s pretty amazing, just think of the marketing effort that Microsoft put into IE 9, and we’ve talked about some of the websites they’ve had out there to get everyone excited about it and to show off some of the really cool features of IE 9, I mean they dumped millions and millions of dollars to market this new browser, and it really doesn’t seem like it had much of an effect, at least not on early adopters which is I think primarily who they were aiming that at.

布拉德：您知道这真是太神奇了，想一想微软对IE 9所做的营销工作，我们已经讨论了他们拥有的一些网站，这些网站使所有人对此感到兴奋并炫耀一些IE 9的非常酷的功能，我是说他们投入了数百万美元来推销这种新的浏览器，但这似乎并没有起到太大作用，至少对早期采用者没有影响，我认为主要是因为瞄准了。

Kevin: Well, the nice thing from a web developer perspective is that these browsers, these latest versions of the browsers, are all quite good as far as web standard support, and so whether someone uses Internet Explorer 9 or Firefox 4 or Chrome or Safari, it’s all pretty good at the moment; the numbers I suppose that really affect us are as usual those numbers of really old versions of Internet Explorer, and the news continues to be good there. Of all the people who were using Internet Explorer 6 in February, 5.6% of them abandoned that browser in March, so one in 20 of all the Internet Explorer users in the world decided to switch to another browser in March, that’s pretty good news right there. The other good news is Internet Explorer 7 for the first time has dropped to below 10% market share overall.

凯文：嗯，从Web开发人员的角度来看，好事是，这些浏览器，这些浏览器的最新版本在Web标准支持方面都非常出色，因此无论有人使用Internet Explorer 9或Firefox 4还是Chrome或Safari ，目前一切都很好；我认为确实会影响我们的数字与往常一样是Internet Explorer的较旧版本的数字，并且那里的新闻仍然很不错。在2月份使用Internet Explorer 6的所有用户中，有3.6％的人在3月份放弃了该浏览器，因此，全球所有Internet Explorer用户中有20个决定在3月份切换到另一个浏览器，这是个好消息。那里。另一个好消息是Internet Explorer 7首次下降到总体市场份额的10％以下。

Brad: Yay!

布拉德：是的 ！

Kevin: So, yeah, it seems Microsoft doing a good job gradually moving people to later versions of IE. That IE 8 as we’ve said before is going to continue to be a problem because that is the last version of the browser that works on Windows XP, so getting people on to IE 9 is going to be a bigger hurdle, but if we just get all Internet Explorer users on IE 8 or later that’s already going to make a real positive difference to a lot of web developers out there. Alright, next story guys?

凯文：是的，似乎微软在逐步将人们转移到更高版本的IE方面做得很好。我们之前所说的IE 8仍将是一个问题，因为那是可在Windows XP上运行的浏览器的最新版本，因此，让人们使用IE 9将会是一个更大的障碍，但是如果我们只需让IE 8或更高版本上的所有Internet Explorer用户都对许多Web开发人员产生真正的积极影响。好吧，接下来的家伙？

Patrick: Well, Adobe announced on April 11^th that they would make the Creative Suite available through a subscription based program, including the Creative Suite itself and also the individual programs within it, so for example you could have access to Photoshop for $49.00 a month, or if you commit to an entire year $35.00 a month, and obviously the programs go up and down from there, but the idea is that it makes the software more accessible to certain markets, people who would like to simply subscribe to one application or to the Suite for a short period or can’t afford to make that large payment all at once, for example, the Master Collection which is $2600.00 U.S. retail, so instead of that they can essentially rent it or subscribe to it for $129.00 or $195.00 depending on whether or not they will commit to a full year. And the interesting thing about the full year subscription is that no matter how you do it full year or month-to-month, you will still be billed month-to-month, so they will take the benefit to save money over the 12 month period but they’ll still pay it month by month. So it’s kind of Adobe making the software I guess easily accessible to people who want to use it, and I have an article at CrunchGear, it was the one that I found it through in the Rider there, Devin Coldewey makes the point that it might take some people who would turn to piracy because they can’t afford $2,600.00 but would still like to do the right thing, so to speak, and will pay $20.00 a month or $50.00 a month or whatever it is for just what they need.

帕特里克：恩，Adobe在4月11 ^日宣布，他们将通过基于订阅的程序(包括Creative Suite本身以及其中的各个程序)来提供Creative Suite，例如，您可以以每月49美元的价格使用Photoshop。，或者如果您承诺每月支付$ 35.00的全年费用，并且这些程序显然从那里起伏不定，但其想法是，它使该软件更易于为某些市场(希望仅订阅一个应用程序或短期内购买套房或无法一次付清大笔款项，例如Master Collection(美国零售价为$ 2600.00)，因此他们基本上可以租用或以$ 129.00或$ 195.00的价格订购取决于他们是否承诺一年。全年订阅的有趣之处在于，无论您是全年还是每月，您都将按月向您收费，因此他们将受益于在12个月内省钱期，但他们仍会按月支付。因此，这是一种Adobe开发的软件，我想让想要使用它的人可以轻松访问该软件，我在CrunchGear上发表了一篇文章，这是我在Rider中找到的，Devin Coldewey指出了这一点采取一些因为他们负担不起$ 2,600.00但仍然愿意做正确的事情而转为盗版的人，可以这么说，他们会每月支付$ 20.00或每月支付$ 50.00或他们所需要的任何费用。

Kevin: Yeah. I’m just looking at the headlines, the pricing is a bit confusing, I think people are still getting their heads around it. I’m seeing headlines here that under this new pricing you can get Photoshop for $35.00 a month, and then there’s another headline that says you can get Photoshop for $50.00 a month.

凯文：是的。我只是在看头条新闻，定价有些混乱，我认为人们仍会继续关注它。我在这里看到头条新闻，在这个新价格下，您可以每月35.00美元的价格购买Photoshop，然后又有一个头条新闻，您可以每月50.00美元的价格购买Photoshop。

Patrick: Yeah, the difference there is in how much you commit to, if you commit for a whole year then it’s $35.00, but if you just pay month-to-month, and you can cancel at any time, then it’s just $49.00; so that’s the difference, they’ve broken it down for each application and I actually have a few pricing examples here. For Photoshop, for example, the retail Photoshop is $699.00, an upgrade is $199.00, if you were to pay for it monthly, just month-to-month, you would go to $588.00, and if you were to pay for it yearly you would be paying $420.00 for 12 months. So, it is cheaper in that sense of using it for 12 months, it’s obviously cheaper to buy the software if you intend to use it all the time, every month, and you’re a serious designer or developer who probably wants to go ahead and buy it, but for the average small business or just someone getting into the business I could see how it might make sense to subscribe and to pay that smaller amount even if you’re not necessarily saving money if you use it for say three years.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，您所承诺的金额有所不同，如果您承诺一整年，则为35.00美元，但是如果您每月支付一次，并且可以随时取消，则为49.00美元。这就是区别，他们已经针对每个应用程序对其进行了细分，实际上我在这里有一些定价示例。例如，对于Photoshop，零售店的Photoshop售价为699.00美元，升级价格为199.00美元，如果您要按月，按月支付费用，则价格为588.00美元，如果要按年付款，则价格为8.00美元。 12个月内支付$ 420.00。因此，从使用12个月的意义上讲，它更便宜；如果您打算每个月一直使用它，那么购买该软件显然会更便宜；而且您是一位认真的设计师或开发人员，可能想继续并购买它，但对于普通的小型企业或只是从事该业务的某人来说，我可以看到订阅和支付这笔较小的钱可能是有意义的，即使您不一定要省钱(如果使用了三年) 。

Stephan: If you do the full year and it’s still charged month-to-month, can you cancel or any time?

史蒂芬(Stephan)：如果您全年进行，但仍按月收取费用，您可以取消还是可以随时取消？

Patrick: If you cancel it you will be billed for the amount you would’ve paid month-to-month, so it’ll be adjusted, whereas if you had benefited from that for say six months they’ll go ahead and go back and adjust those last six months and charge you for the difference that you saved. Also another interesting point about it is that it allows you to access current and future versions of the software, so as soon as the next version comes out you’ll have access to that right away and you can continue to use the old version if you’d rather instead for a whole year after that. So it’s sort of a built-in upgrade in a way, kind of an automatic kind of concurrent upgrade, so I think some might find that appealing as well.

帕特里克：如果您取消付款，则将按月支付的金额向您收费，因此将对其进行调整，但是如果您从中受益六个月，他们将继续付款并返回并调整最近六个月的费用，并向您收取所节省的差额。另一个有趣的一点是，它允许您访问软件的当前版本和将来版本，因此，下一版本发布后，您将立即可以访问该版本，如果您继续使用旧版本，则可以继续使用。宁愿在那之后整整一年。因此，这是某种程度上的内置升级，是一种自动的并发升级，因此我认为有些人也可能会觉得很有吸引力。

Brad: I think this is great.

布拉德：我认为这很棒。

Kevin: Yeah, especially this coincides with Adobe announcing Creative Suite 5.5 which they’re calling a mid-cycle update, which I think is curious terminology that, you know, I get the feeling no one cares about Adobe’s product release cycles except Adobe, and here they are further bringing that stuff into their marketing and pricing; I think it just confuses things. As far as I can see here they had some significant updates they wanted to make to some of their applications, whereas other of their applications, Photoshop for example, they haven’t made any changes to, and so what they’re going to do is they’re releasing a whole new version of their suite, but because they don’t have new versions of all the apps in that suite they’re going oh you know it’s kind of like a halfway update, that’s why we’re calling it 5.5 instead of 6, we’re calling it mid-cycle to let you know that we haven’t abandoned the other applications; we started by updating these ones and we wanted to get these new versions to you as soon as possible and now we’re going to go to work on the other applications. You can either upgrade now and the new versions of these apps, or if you don’t care about these apps you can wait until the full cycle update to the Suite that presumably will come late this year or even early next year, and at that point you would get all of the apps updated. I don’t know, I suppose the subscription is to me a nice thing in that it, as you say, Patrick, it lets you get away from this whole, these product release cycles and having to spend half a day figuring out whether this Creative Suite is something that is worth spending the several hundred dollars to upgrade to for you and the way you use these apps; you can just subscribe and you get the new stuff as it comes out.

凯文：是的，尤其是在Adobe发布Creative Suite 5.5的同时，他们称其为周期中更新，我认为这是一个奇怪的术语，我知道，除了Adobe，我没有人关心Adobe产品的发布周期，他们在这里进一步将这些东西带入他们的营销和定价中；我认为这只会使事情变得混乱。据我所见，他们希望对某些应用程序进行一些重大更新，而其他应用程序(例如Photoshop)尚未进行任何更改，因此他们将要做的事情他们正在发布套件的全新版本，但是因为他们在该套件中没有所有应用程序的新版本，所以我们要这么做哦，您知道这有点像中途更新，这就是我们为什么要调用它是5.5而不是6，我们称其为周期中期，以告知您我们尚未放弃其他应用程序；我们从更新这些版本开始，我们希望尽快将这些新版本提供给您，现在我们将继续在其他应用程序上工作。您可以立即升级这些应用程序的新版本，或者如果您不关心这些应用程序，则可以等到Suite的完整周期更新(大概会在今年下半年甚至明年年初)之前进行，点，您将更新所有应用程序。我不知道，我认为订阅对我来说是一件好事，正如您所说的，Patrick，它可以让您摆脱整个产品发布周期，而不必花半天的时间来确定Creative Suite值得花几百美元为您升级以及使用这些应用程序的方式。您只需订阅即可获得新内容。

Patrick: Yeah, and I think the point that I write at the CrunchGear article is a good one as far as looking at people who are just getting into this or work at a small business and may want to start using something like Photoshop or Dreamweaver or whatever, you know $35.00 or $19.00 a month is a lot more palatable than the $699.00 for Photoshop or the $399.00 for Dreamweaver or the thousand-plus dollars for the Creative Suite. So, I could definitely see it being valuable there, I think serious people will still want to buy the applications. You made a good point about the cycles and that was part of a larger announcement that I read about it ZDNet UK where they said that Adobe revealed that they would be on a 24 month milestone release cycle from now on with the mid-cycle releases, so this is a mid-cycle one, and then the main milestone releases will come 24 months apart of each other. So I don’t know if that’s part of the point of making the value a subscription maybe, in effect telling people if you want to stay up to date you have to upgrade every two years anyway so you might want to look at the subscription thing if it makes sense to you; I don’t know if that’s part of that value proposition or not.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我认为我在CrunchGear文章中所写的观点对那些刚开始从事这项工作或在小型企业工作并且可能想开始使用Photoshop或Dreamweaver或不管怎样，您知道每月$ 35.00或$ 19.00的价格比Photoshop的$ 699.00或Dreamweaver的$ 399.00或Creative Suite的上千美元要好得多。因此，我绝对可以看到它的价值，我认为认真的人仍然会想购买这些应用程序。您对周期表示了很好的看法，这是我读到的有关ZDNet UK的一个较大公告的一部分，他们说Adobe透露从现在开始，它将处于24个月里程碑里程碑的发行周期中，因此这是一个中期周期，然后主要里程碑版本将彼此间隔24个月。因此，我不知道这是否可以成为订阅价值的一部分，实际上告诉人们您是否想保持最新状态，无论如何必须每两年进行一次升级，因此您可能要看一下订阅内容如果对您有意义；我不知道这是否是该价值主张的一部分。

Kevin: Let’s do the math here for a second, so $50.00 a month for Photoshop at the expensive end of the subscription scale, if you didn’t want to commit $50.00 a month and so that works out to $600.00 a year, now what did you say that the retail price of Photoshop was, Patrick?

凯文：让我们在这里做一秒钟的数学运算，所以如果您不想每月支付50.00美元，而每年的费用是600.00美元，那么按订购规模的昂贵价格，Photoshop的每月费用是50美元，而现在的费用是您说Photoshop的零售价是，帕特里克？

Patrick: Photoshop is $699.00 retail.

帕特里克： Photoshop零售价为$ 699.00。

Kevin: $699.00 retail. So, a year of Photoshop subscription is cheaper than buying it outright, but if you were going to use it solid for two years for the full 24 month cycle it is, you know, you get almost a 50% off the subscription price. But if you go for the cheap subscription price which was $35.00 x 12 months, that’s $420.00, that’s $840.00, so still more expensive than buying the box, but if you need the flexibility the subscription’s good. I don’t know, when I do those calculations I can’t but come to the conclusion the subscription is a bit of a cash grab. I like that the subscription provides flexibility, I like that it eliminates boxes of software with non-recyclable CD’s flying around the world everywhere, I like that it lets people pay for what they use, but what I’m seeing is that Adobe’s taking the opportunity to extract a little more cash for that flexibility. Is that fair?

凯文：零售价$ 699.00。因此，一年的Photoshop订阅要比直接购买便宜，但是，如果要在整个24个月的周期内稳定使用两年，那您将获得近50％的订阅价格折扣。但是，如果您选择的是35.00美元x 12个月的便宜订阅价格，那是420.00美元，也就是840.00美元，因此，比购买包装盒还要贵，但是如果您需要灵活性，那么订阅就可以了。我不知道，当我进行这些计算时，我只能得出一个结论：订阅有点抢钱。我喜欢订阅提供了灵活性，我喜欢消除了随处可见的可回收CD随处可见的软件盒，我希望它可以使人们为使用的东西付费，但是我看到的是Adobe正在采用有机会为这种灵活性提取更多的现金。那公平吗？

Brad: I think it goes just like both of you said, this is perfect for startups, I mean it’s expensive when you start a company to actually buy the licenses for all the software you need, but if you can essentially rent that software for a couple months and then you land a couple jobs and then you get the money where you can actually go out and buy the full license, I think it’s a nice way to kind of get started on it and then if it is successful from there you can actually purchase out the license.

布拉德：我想你们俩都说过，这对初创公司来说是完美的，我的意思是，当您成立公司以实际购买所需所有软件的许可证时，这是昂贵的，但是如果您实质上可以租用该软件来几个月，然后您找到了几份工作，然后您获得了可以实际出门购买完整许可证的钱，我认为这是一种很好的开始方式，然后从那里开始成功，您可以实际购买许可证。

Kevin: For casual users this is gold. I have to make a confession, I used to have Creative Suite installed on my computer as a web developer, you know, where my main job is code I still had Creative Suite installed because Photoshop Fireworks, these were the tools of the trade, whenever you needed to make something look a little different I fired those up. In the past couple of years it’s gotten to the point where I can no longer justify the expense of having those apps on my computer. Part of it is that the alternative apps, the sort of Indie applications, if you’re on the Mac give Pixelmator a look, it is sort of a Photoshop-Lite; for 90% of what you would do as a web developer Pixelmator is great, and it’s really cheap on the Mac App Store, I think their regular price is about fifty bucks, but last time I checked they had a sale of $29.99 on, I don’t know if that price is still the case. This is a gripe I have with the Mac App Store that once you’ve bought something you can longer check the price of it, but if one of you guys who doesn’t have it installed can have a look in the Mac App Store and get that price, Pixelmator is great, that’s what I use for Photoshop these days. But if once every six months I need to do something that requires the Photoshop feature set and I can just pay for Photoshop that month only, now I’m saving a lot of money, you know, that’s $100.00 a year I’m spending on Photoshop, $200.00 over the entire product cycle, I’ve just saved myself $400.00, $500.00 off the price. So for casual users, for developers who very occasionally need to do a little bit of design work, or as you say, Brad, if you’re just getting into this business, you don’t know if you’re still going to be working on this stuff in six months time but you want to get into it a bit, this subscription pricing is gold.

凯文：对于休闲用户来说，这是黄金。我不得不坦白，我曾经作为Web开发人员在计算机上安装了Creative Suite，您知道，我的主要工作是仍然安装Creative Suite的代码，因为Photoshop Fireworks是这些交易工具，每当您需要使某些内容看起来有些不同，我将它们解雇了。在过去的几年里，我已经无法证明在计算机上安装这些应用程序的花费了。部分原因是替代应用程序(一种独立应用程序)，如果您使用的是Mac，则可以使Pixelmator看起来像是Photoshop-Lite。作为Web开发者Pixelmator的工作的90％很棒，而且在Mac App Store上确实很便宜，我认为它们的正常价格约为50美元，但是上次我检查了它们的销售价为29.99美元，不知道这个价格是否仍然如此。我在Mac App Store遇到的麻烦是，一旦您购买了某件东西，便可以再检查一下它的价格，但是如果没有安装该工具的人可以在Mac App Store中查看一下，然后得到这个价格，Pixelmator很棒，这就是我最近用于Photoshop的功能。但是，如果我每六个月执行一次需要执行Photoshop功能集的操作，而我只能在该月付款，那么我现在可以节省很多钱，这就是我每年要花的100美元。 Photoshop，在整个产品周期中只需$ 200.00，我为自己节省了$ 400.00，节省了$ 500.00。因此，对于临时用户，对于偶尔需要做一些设计工作的开发人员，或者您所说的布拉德(Brad)，如果您只是从事这项业务，就不知道自己是否还会继续在六个月的时间内处理这些东西，但是您想了解一点，这个订阅价格是黄金。

Brad: They should charge by the minute, let me just rent ten minutes so I can do a quick slice-up and then I’m done.

布拉德：他们应该按分钟收费，让我租十分钟，这样我就可以快速完成工作，然后就完成了。

Kevin: I would love that.

凯文：我会喜欢的。

Patrick: Well, the thing about this whole system though is that there still needs to be an incentive for people to buy, right, the rental, the subscription when you do the math it needs to be substantially more I would say than buying it, right, because otherwise why would anyone buy it, and I think that’s still part of the business here, they still want people to buy it; it’s almost like the music subscription model of buying, but in music it’s different because you get access to all those tracks. Can that translate to software, I mean should Adobe give access to their entire suite for $99.00 a month where you can own it for a thousand maybe, if they lower it, a thousand five hundred, I mean I don’t know, it’s different how it would translate, it will be interesting to see how well this works and how popular it is and if people do use it or don’t use it, if they don’t use it obviously it’s probably not low enough to be worthwhile for people to subscribe to it. And I’m just like you, Kevin, because I have a really old — I don’t even know if it was called Creative Suite, I have a really old license for Macromedia, it’s Macromedia Dreamweaver 8, Fireworks 8, Flash 8, so this is years and years old and I don’t know even know old it is, and I just think there’s no reason for me to upgrade; the things that I use it for, the little bit of changes that I have to make on a daily basis or a weekly basis really it doesn’t make sense for me to spend even on the upgrades, so I stick with the old version, it still works on my latest computer and it works fine for me.

帕特里克：嗯，关于整个系统的问题是，在进行数学运算时，仍然需要激励人们购买，出租，租赁以及购买，相比于购买，我要说的要多得多，是的，因为否则，为什么有人会购买它，而且我认为这仍然是这里业务的一部分，他们仍然希望人们购买它；这几乎类似于购买音乐的订阅模式，但是在音乐中却有所不同，因为您可以访问所有这些曲目。可以翻译成软件吗，我的意思是说Adobe应该以每月99.00美元的价格让他们使用整个套件，在那里您可以拥有一千个，如果他们降低它，可以拥有一千五百个，我的意思是我不知道，这是不同的它将如何翻译，有趣的是看看它的工作原理以及它的流行程度，以及人们是否使用它，或者如果他们不使用它，显然它的价值可能还不低，值得人们订阅它。我就像你一样，Kevin，因为我有一个很老的-我什至不知道它是否叫做Creative Suite，我有一个非常老的Macromedia许可证，它是Macromedia Dreamweaver 8，Fireworks 8，Flash 8，所以这已经有几岁了，我什至都不知道它有几岁了，我只是认为我没有理由升级。我使用它所要做的事情，每天或每周要做的一点点改动实际上对我来说即使花在升级上也没有意义，所以我坚持使用旧版本，它仍然可以在我的最新计算机上运行，对我来说也很好。

Kevin: Yeah, I think the pricing is probably fair in that if they made the subscription for two years equal the price to buy the box then all of those people who are currently paying the full license price for Photoshop and not using it 24 hours a day 7 days a week would suddenly drop back to the subscription and Adobe would go out of business, so I suppose they were forced to make the subscription a little more expensive per month than buying the thing. I suppose just looking at these prices on a monthly basis it drives home just to me just how expensive these apps are. Thanks for looking up the price by the way of Pixelmators, Patrick, we’ve got $60.00, it’s $60.00, so I guess that introductory offer is gone, but still as a replacement for Photoshop that’s one month and a few days of Photoshop access and you can have Pixelmator on your system for good. I think I’ll take the next story, I’ve got this thing on Design Festival which we spoke about before, it’s SitePoint’s design focused site, and this is a blog post called What Can We Learn from a Nameless Logo? So, guys, I’m going to put this link in our little private chat room here, and I want you to follow it but don’t scroll to the bottom of the page. This blog post is kind of a visual quiz of how recognizable if you take all the text out of them. So the first few at the top should be pretty easy, we’ve got sort of two orange half ellipses on top of each other, anyone want to take a stab?

凯文：是的，我认为定价可能是合理的，因为如果他们两年的订购价等于购买盒子的价格，那么所有当前为Photoshop支付全部许可价格并且不全天候使用24小时的人每周7天的一天会突然退回订阅，而Adobe会倒闭，所以我想他们被迫每月增加订阅的费用，而不是购买东西。我想每月查看这些价格，就可以知道这些应用程序的价格是多少。感谢您通过Pixelmators，Patrick的价格查询价格，我们得到了$ 60.00，为$ 60.00，所以我想介绍性的报价已经不见了，但是仍然可以替代Photoshop，但需要一个月零几天的Photoshop访问权限，您可以在系统上永久安装Pixelmator。我想我会讲下一个故事，我之前在设计节上提到过这件事，这是SitePoint的设计重点网站，这是一篇博客文章，名为“我们可以从无名徽标中学到什么？”。所以，伙计们，我要将这个链接放在我们这里的小型私人聊天室中，我希望您关注它，但不要滚动到页面底部。这篇博客文章是一种可视化的测验，即您是否将其中的所有文字都识别出来。因此，顶部的前几个应该非常容易，我们彼此之间有点像两个橙色的半椭圆形，有人要刺吗？

Stephan: Burger King.

史蒂芬：汉堡王。

Patrick: Yeah, Burger King. Good job, Stephan, good job.

帕特里克：是的，汉堡王。干得好，斯蒂芬，干得好。

Kevin: Correct, unless you’re here in Melbourne where we call it Hungry Jack’s for no particular reason.

凯文：是的 ，除非您在墨尔本，我们无故称呼饥饿杰克。

Brad: Hungry Jack’s, what?

布拉德：饿杰克，什么？

Kevin: A bit of Australia trivia for you there. It’s a funny story, my understanding is Burger King owns both Burger King and Hungry Jacks and about ten years ago they said we’re unifying the brand, we’re sick of printing these different signs for Australia, and they started the process of changing the signage and converting all the Hungry Jack’s restaurants in Australia to Burger King. And so for a few years there you could drive across town and pass a Hungry Jack’s and then pass a Burger King and they’d have the exact same menus and the same sort of logo but just different text, but there was such a public outcry I think as soon as Australians realized they were the only place in the world that had Hungry Jacks they went, no, it’s part of our national identity! And they started blacklisting all of the restaurants that had converted their branding to Burger King, and so the company was forced to relent and has now changed the branding all back, so it’s Hungry Jack’s across Australia. So if you want a Whopper you have to go to Hungry Jacks.

凯文：那里有一些澳大利亚琐事。这是一个有趣的故事，据我所知，汉堡王同时拥有汉堡王和饥饿杰克，大约十年前，他们说我们要统一品牌，我们厌倦了为澳大利亚印刷这些不同的标志，于是他们开始了改变的过程标牌，并将澳大利亚的所有Hungry Jack's餐厅转换为Burger King。因此，在那里呆了几年，您可以驾车穿越城镇，穿过饥饿的杰克餐厅，然后穿过汉堡王，他们会有完全相同的菜单和相同的徽标，但文字却不同，但是却遭到公众的强烈抗议我想，只要澳大利亚人意识到他们是世界上唯一一个饿了杰克的地方，不，那是我们民族身份的一部分！他们开始将所有将其品牌转换为Burger King的餐厅列入黑名单，因此该公司被迫屈服，现在又将品牌重新变了，所以遍布澳大利亚的Hungry Jack's。因此，如果您想使用Whopper，则必须去饥饿的千斤顶。

Patrick: And also I went to the Hungry Jack’s Twitter page and wouldn’t you know it, you both follow @sentience.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我也去了饥饿杰克(Hungry Jack)的Twitter页面，您不知道吗，你们俩都遵循@sentience。

Kevin: What!

凯文：什么！

Patrick: So you’re actually followed by Hungry Jacks on Twitter.

帕特里克(Patrick)：所以您实际上在Twitter上紧随其后的是Hungry Jacks。

Kevin: Oh, okay, as long as I’m not following them.

凯文：哦，好吧，只要我不关注他们。

Patrick: You’re not following them but, you know, a little reciprocal following wouldn’t kill you.

帕特里克(Patrick)：您没有关注他们，但是，知道一点点的相互关注并不会杀死您。

Kevin: (Laughs) yeah. We’ve got obviously Coca-Cola, the white wave across the red background. The next one’s really recognizable I think maybe unless you were born in the last ten years you might not recognize that one.

凯文：(笑)是的。我们显然有可口可乐，红色背景上的白色波浪。我认为下一个确实很容易辨认，除非您是最近十年出生的，否则您可能不会认出那个。

Patrick: Kodak

帕特里克：柯达

Brad: Kodak.

布拉德：柯达。

Kevin: Kodak, definitely. Now this one afterwards, this one stumped me I have to admit, it’s like kind of red chevron.

凯文：当然是柯达。现在要说的是，我不得不承认这一点让我很沮丧，就像红色的人字形。

Stephan: Levi’s.

史蒂芬：李维斯。

Patrick: Yeah, Levi’s.

帕特里克：是的，李维斯。

Kevin: Oh, it is Levi’s! Yeah, it’s definitely Levi’s; I thought it was some gas station or something like that. Alright, so those are the easy ones, but if you scroll down the author of this post Jennifer Farley has assembled some still quite popular logos but they’re a little less recognizable without their text. So the first one it’s kind of an orange outline, it’s a shield with a rectangular box across the center of it.

凯文：哦，是李维斯的！是的，绝对是李维斯(Levi's)；我以为是加油站之类的东西。好吧，所以这很容易，但是如果您向下滚动此帖子的作者，詹妮弗·法利(Jennifer Farley)组装了一些仍然很流行的徽标，但是如果没有文字，它们的识别度会降低一些。因此，第一个是橙色轮廓，它是一个带有中心矩形框的盾牌。

Patrick: Harley Davidson.

帕特里克：哈雷戴维森。

Kevin: Ooh!

凯文：哦！

Brad: Yeah, that’s an easy one.

布拉德：是的，这很简单。

Kevin: Patrick got it first; Patrick’s the motorbike head (laughter).

凯文：帕特里克首先得到它。帕特里克是摩托车的头(笑声)。

Patrick: I feel like we have to take turns now.

帕特里克：我觉得我们现在必须轮流。

Kevin: We’ve got a pale yellow triangle; sort of it looks almost sticking out of the blackness. I don’t recognize that either.

凯文：我们有一个淡黄色的三角形。看起来几乎没有黑度。我也不知道。

Brad: I don’t get this one either.

布拉德：我也没有。

Patrick: Is this Caterpillar maybe?

帕特里克：也许这是毛毛虫？

Kevin: It is Caterpillar, well done. It’s Cat, C-A-T is the official name of the company these days. Next one’s really easy but it’s —

凯文：是卡特彼勒，做得好。如今，CAT是Cat的公司的正式名称。下一步真的很简单，但是-

Patrick: Netflix! Just kidding.

帕特里克： Netflix！开玩笑。

Kevin: (Laughs) so a blue movie ticket with a yellow outline in the center torn off, it’s Blockbuster obviously. You know I can’t look at that logo without feeling bad, I feel like we need to give a moment’s silence.

凯文：(笑)蓝色的电影票中间有黄色的轮廓被撕下来，显然是一鸣惊人。您知道我要在不感到不舒服的情况下才能看到该徽标，我觉得我们需要保持沉默。

Patrick: Right. I used to love Blockbuster stores, darn.

帕特里克：对。我曾经爱过Blockbuster商店，该死。

Kevin: Yeah. We’ve got kind of a blue circle with white droplets of water spinning around the perimeter.

凯文：是的。我们有一个蓝色的圆圈，周围环绕着白色的水滴。

Patrick: Stephan take it; Brad take it!

帕特里克：斯蒂芬接过；布拉德！

Brad: Is that Whirlpool maybe?

布拉德：也许是漩涡吗？

Kevin: Yeah, Whirlpool, good. GE, GE I think General Electric, yeah, I think that’s the one. They probably own each other. Now, the yellow box is instantly recognizable to me is National Geographic. And then we have this one, the blue shield with stars and a football at the top.

凯文：是的，惠而浦，很好。通用电气，通用电气，我认为是通用电气，是的，我认为就是这样。他们可能彼此拥有。现在，我可以立即辨认出黄色方框是“国家地理”。然后是这个，蓝色的盾牌上有星星，顶部是足球。

Patrick: This is Brad’s.

帕特里克：这是布拉德的。

Brad: NFL.

布拉德： NFL。

Kevin: It’s the NFL, right, yeah, great. Alright, so the lesson of this blog post to me is I think a lot of Web 2.0 logos you start with just a piece of text, and we’re guilty of this at Learnable.com; when we first designed the site our first take of the logo was just let’s pick an attractive font to put the word Learnable in, and maybe spend a little time tweaking the typography so that it’s a little unique and just the way we want it, but these I guess you call them logo types are really popular in web startups, but you look at these brands, these iconic brands, and they are instantly recognizable without any text at all, and I find that really interesting, I’d love to see more websites set themselves the challenge of coming up with a brand identity, a visual logo that is instantly recognizable with no text whatsoever. And that’s what we ended up doing with Learnable; if you go to Learnable.com you can see in the little icon, the fav icon for the site is this little heart, this blue heart that we are planning to deploy across the site as our logo. It’s got kind of a hidden L and B in it if you can use your imagination, but yeah we’re quite happy with our little blue heart. Anyway, I saw that blog post and I just thought wow that is really interesting that these massive offline brands, you know you think about Blockbuster and probably offline to a fault, but the one thing they seem to do consistently is make themselves recognizable without reading.

凯文：是NFL，是的，太好了。好了，因此本博客文章对我的启示是，我认为许多Web 2.0徽标仅以一段文本开头，我们在Learnable.com上对此感到内;；当我们最初设计站点时，我们首先看到的徽标是让我们选择一种吸引人的字体来添加Learnable一词，也许花一点时间来调整版式，以便它有点独特，并且正是我们想要的方式，但是这些我想您将它们称为徽标类型在Web初创企业中确实很流行，但是您查看这些品牌，这些标志性品牌，就可以立即识别出它们，而根本没有任何文字，我发现这真的很有趣，我很乐意看到越来越多的网站向自己提出了提出品牌标识的挑战，品牌标识是一种视觉识别，无需任何文字即可立即识别。这就是我们最终通过Learnable完成的工作；如果您访问Learnable.com，则可以在小图标中看到，该网站的收藏夹图标就是这个小心脏，我们计划将其作为徽标在整个网站上部署。如果您可以发挥想像力，它里面会有一个隐藏的L和B，但是，是的，我们对我们的小蓝心感到非常满意。无论如何，我看到了那篇博客文章，我只是想哇，这些庞大的线下品牌真的很有趣，您知道您想到的是Blockbuster，并且可能会脱机而出故障，但是他们似乎一贯地做的一件事就是让自己无需阅读即可被识别。

Stephan: It’s interesting you think of like Twitter, it’s just a word but I guess you could associate it with a bird.

史蒂芬(Stephan)：您想到的像Twitter一样有趣，这只是一个词，但我想您可以将它与鸟联系起来。

Kevin: Well, the blue bird didn’t come from Twitter, Twitter was just the text as you say, and I believe the blue bird first appeared on the Twitterrific client from Iconfactory, obviously experts in visual experts in branding and design, and they had their own blue bird and then Twitter came out with a much sort of simplified very iconic blue bird design, but I think there’s probably no doubt in my mind that it was inspired by the take that Iconfactory had in their client.

凯文：好吧，蓝鸟不是来自Twitter，Twitter只是您所说的文字，我相信蓝鸟首先出现在Iconfactory的Twitterrific客户上，显然是品牌和设计方面的视觉专家，他们拥有自己的蓝鸟，然后Twitter推出了许多简化的非常具有标志性的蓝鸟设计，但是我认为毫无疑问，这是受到Iconfactory对客户的欢迎的启发。

Stephan: Yeah, interesting. It’s just interesting words, how many companies and startups and stuff we see out there that just use words and no logo really.

斯蒂芬：是的，很有趣。只是一些有趣的词，我们看到有多少公司，初创公司和东西只使用了词而没有徽标。

Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

凯文：是的，确实如此。

Brad: Logos are tough, especially if you don’t have someone that can make them they’re expensive, you know, logos are tough.

布拉德：徽标很难，尤其是如果您没有可以使它们变得昂贵的人，那么徽标就很难。

Kevin: I wouldn’t be doing my job if I didn’t plug 99Designs for cheap logo designs.

凯文：如果我不为便宜的徽标设计插上99Designs，我就不会干我的工作。

Brad: That’s where I send everybody that wants a logo.

Brad: That's where I send everybody that wants a logo.

Kevin: (Laughs)

凯文：(笑)

Patrick: Yeah, Flickr, Yahoo, Google, all words.

Kevin: Yeah. Full disclosure, 99Designs is a SitePoint company as well. I was at a friend’s birthday party a couple of weeks ago, and it was one of these birthday parties where it’s a friend that I used to work with several years ago, so I know him but I don’t know any of his friends, so I was hanging out in the kitchen chatting to strangers and had this great conversation with this guy and he just turns to me out of nowhere and goes, “Have you heard of this thing 99Designs?” And I went who put you up to this? (Laughter), but no, his sister had started a business and gotten a logo designed for it and he thought it was the coolest thing so, yeah, he was surprised to be speaking to someone who worked on that site.

凯文：是的。 Full disclosure, 99Designs is a SitePoint company as well. I was at a friend's birthday party a couple of weeks ago, and it was one of these birthday parties where it's a friend that I used to work with several years ago, so I know him but I don't know any of his friends, so I was hanging out in the kitchen chatting to strangers and had this great conversation with this guy and he just turns to me out of nowhere and goes, “Have you heard of this thing 99Designs?” And I went who put you up to this? (Laughter), but no, his sister had started a business and gotten a logo designed for it and he thought it was the coolest thing so, yeah, he was surprised to be speaking to someone who worked on that site.

Patrick: I take it you improved it quite well.

Kevin: Yes, of course. Alright, we’ve had stories from everyone except —

Kevin: Yes, of course. Alright, we've had stories from everyone except —

Stephan: Moi.

Kevin: Stephan.

Stephan: So I have the story, The Guardian, the paper in the UK, is migrating its website from Java to Scala, or Scala, depending on you say it, and they’ve actually had a project before that was their content API which was this massive database I guess you could call it that they had built and you could tap into this API that was built on Scala and pull back whatever you wanted through it. And now they’re moving the whole website to Scala off of Java.

Stephan: So I have the story, The Guardian, the paper in the UK, is migrating its website from Java to Scala, or Scala, depending on you say it, and they've actually had a project before that was their content API which was this massive database I guess you could call it that they had built and you could tap into this API that was built on Scala and pull back whatever you wanted through it. And now they're moving the whole website to Scala off of Java.

Kevin: It is Scala. Yeah, and I have to confess I don’t know anything about Scala, but it is kind of the Ruby of the Java world, except that Ruby is also the Ruby of the Java world. It’s one of these newfangled languages that runs on the Java virtual machine, so I guess it would be — you wouldn’t say they’re abandoning Java completely, they’re still going to use Java based servers to run this stuff, but the language they’re writing everything in would be Scala.

Kevin: It is Scala. Yeah, and I have to confess I don't know anything about Scala, but it is kind of the Ruby of the Java world, except that Ruby is also the Ruby of the Java world. It's one of these newfangled languages that runs on the Java virtual machine, so I guess it would be — you wouldn't say they're abandoning Java completely, they're still going to use Java based servers to run this stuff, but the language they're writing everything in would be Scala.

Stephan: When you look at the language if you look at some of the code examples it looks like Java almost, there are some small differences but it has some similar calls, you know the dot notation stuff, so it’s interesting and the reasoning they give it doesn’t really go into a lot of detail, but it says that it’s — they think that it’s a little faster and it’s easier for them to work in is how I read the article; they like it better because the developers just enjoy it more. So I guess that’s a good reason to switch, I wonder how much it’s costing them.

Stephan: When you look at the language if you look at some of the code examples it looks like Java almost, there are some small differences but it has some similar calls, you know the dot notation stuff, so it's interesting and the reasoning they give it doesn't really go into a lot of detail, but it says that it's — they think that it's a little faster and it's easier for them to work in is how I read the article; they like it better because the developers just enjoy it more. So I guess that's a good reason to switch, I wonder how much it's costing them.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, yeah, the nice thing about switching from one language to another on the Java platform is that you can write parts of your app in one language and parts in the other, so if they’ve got this core library that they’ve built let’s say for the sake of argument to render PDF versions of their articles and they had put a lot of work into developing that in Java, they could build a Scala website around it but still use that library, it’s quite nice in that way. But I’m hearing this a lot with languages like Ruby, like Scala, that more and more people are switching to languages because they are enjoyable to work with.

凯文：是的。 Well, yeah, the nice thing about switching from one language to another on the Java platform is that you can write parts of your app in one language and parts in the other, so if they've got this core library that they've built let's say for the sake of argument to render PDF versions of their articles and they had put a lot of work into developing that in Java, they could build a Scala website around it but still use that library, it's quite nice in that way. But I'm hearing this a lot with languages like Ruby, like Scala, that more and more people are switching to languages because they are enjoyable to work with.

Stephan: Yeah, and it’s interesting because you know Twitter uses Scala which is interesting as well, and FourSquare from what I’m reading also uses Scala, so I guess if people enjoy the language or they feel it’s not easy but it’s something that they can challenge themselves and they can learn and I guess that they’re happy to use it, so I guess it’s good.

Stephan: Yeah, and it's interesting because you know Twitter uses Scala which is interesting as well, and FourSquare from what I'm reading also uses Scala, so I guess if people enjoy the language or they feel it's not easy but it's something that they can challenge themselves and they can learn and I guess that they're happy to use it, so I guess it's good.

Patrick: It’s an emotional language.

Patrick: It's an emotional language.

Kevin: The article mentions they’re using IntelliJ IDEA from JetBrains as their integrated development environment, that is certainly back when I was doing Java development that was my favorite environment to work in. It’s kind of like Star Trek movies that every second version is good, IntelliJ Idea tends to — they release a version with a lot of new features and it gets kind of slow, and then the next release is all about streamlining it and making it super fast and that’s the one you really want to get. But, yeah, it’s a great environment, people who pooh-pooh the Java language and the Java platform they often talk about it like it takes– you have to write so much code, the code is so verbose to get things done, but I think that the secret sauce if you’re working on a Java platform is you really want a great development environment like IntelliJ Idea which writes 90% of your code for you, and you just kind of get into this flow with your computer where you’re communicating the ideas and the computer’s writing the code for you. Whereas languages like Ruby and Python that are little more minimal, the developers of those tend to work in plain text editors and they like every piece of code to be something they’ve thought about and wrote from their heart, and fair enough I think there’s room for both styles.

Kevin: The article mentions they're using IntelliJ IDEA from JetBrains as their integrated development environment, that is certainly back when I was doing Java development that was my favorite environment to work in. It's kind of like Star Trek movies that every second version is good, IntelliJ Idea tends to — they release a version with a lot of new features and it gets kind of slow, and then the next release is all about streamlining it and making it super fast and that's the one you really want to get. But, yeah, it's a great environment, people who pooh-pooh the Java language and the Java platform they often talk about it like it takes– you have to write so much code, the code is so verbose to get things done, but I think that the secret sauce if you're working on a Java platform is you really want a great development environment like IntelliJ Idea which writes 90% of your code for you, and you just kind of get into this flow with your computer where you're communicating the ideas and the computer's writing the code for you. Whereas languages like Ruby and Python that are little more minimal, the developers of those tend to work in plain text editors and they like every piece of code to be something they've thought about and wrote from their heart, and fair enough I think there's room for both styles.

Stephan: Yeah, this begs the question, and this last show we talked about cooked, baked content; do you think these kinds of sites, new sites, don’t you think they’re ripe for baked content?

Stephan: Yeah, this begs the question, and this last show we talked about cooked, baked content; do you think these kinds of sites, new sites, don't you think they're ripe for baked content?

Kevin: Oh, absolutely. I’d be very surprised if you ran The Guardian Newspaper website and you didn’t have some at least serious caching of rendered content in there. I think the fact that they’re all trying to put subscription models and paywalls and things in place will lead them more and more to making everything dynamic, but yeah, I think that you’re probably right that at the end of the day these sites come down to people just wanting to read text, so why make it more complicated than it needs to be. I’ve been hearing some crazy statistics of millions of dollars being spent on sites that on the surface seem like they shouldn’t have been that complicated to build. It’s feeling more and more like there’s a bit of a bubble going on in the tech sector again.

Kevin: Oh, absolutely. I'd be very surprised if you ran The Guardian Newspaper website and you didn't have some at least serious caching of rendered content in there. I think the fact that they're all trying to put subscription models and paywalls and things in place will lead them more and more to making everything dynamic, but yeah, I think that you're probably right that at the end of the day these sites come down to people just wanting to read text, so why make it more complicated than it needs to be. I've been hearing some crazy statistics of millions of dollars being spent on sites that on the surface seem like they shouldn't have been that complicated to build. It's feeling more and more like there's a bit of a bubble going on in the tech sector again.

Stephan: Yeah, I definitely agree.

Kevin: The one other thing I wanted to maybe discuss was this story about Camino. which is a little know web browser for the Mac, and it runs on the same rendering engine as Firefox, but it is a more native Mac application; this is something I suppose if you’re a Mac power user you’re probably going to care about, and I certainly count myself among those. When I was testing out Firefox 4 when it came out a couple weeks ago I was pleasantly surprised that Firefox 4 had native text areas on the Mac. Did I talk about this last show? I don’t think I did. No. But the thing about the Mac that I like is that apps can really talk to each other in lots of different ways and you call this integration, and you know my email app talks to my to-do list app and both of these apps have shortcuts in them that I have with a text expander app that I can write text macros that are available system-wide, at least they were everywhere except in Firefox because Firefox previously it kind of drew its own text boxes; if it needed a text box rather than asking the Mac operating system please give me a text box with all of the functionality that comes with it, Firefox went oh no, no, no, I’m cross platform, I know how to draw a text box, I’ll draw my own text box, and as a result you had these text boxes that if you were a power Mac user they lacked features; you couldn’t hover over any word and hit control-command-d to get a dictionary definition, that’s a little Mac tip of the day for you there. And these features were missing from Firefox until version 4, in version 4 all of the text fields they’ve gone out of their way to have — they still paint them using their Firefox cross platform way, but if you put your cursor into a text field it’s like behind the scenes it draws a Mac native text field on top of it so you get all of those features you’re used to having, and I was pleasantly surprised there. But up until Firefox 4, and Firefox 4 still has bits of it that are non-native and are annoying to Mac power users, Camino. has been about adding as much native Chrome to the browser experience as you could get, it’s also a very trimmed down and efficient kind of browser, it’s about being fast and slick and not having too many features, but the thing they rely on has always been being able to take the Firefox rendering engine, Gecko, embedding it in their application and then like drawing the browser around it. Well, Mozilla it seems has come to the decision that they are no longer going to be maintaining and supporting that way of using the Gecko rendering engine; basically Gecko is now going to be this tool that you use in Firefox or Thunderbird or other Mozilla apps, you can still build your own Mozilla based apps using their XUL technology where you invoke the Firefox engine and you use XUL programming language to define your whole user interface, you can still do that, so there are apps out there, there’s a big iTunes competitor out there that’s built on the Firefox engine that’s called Songbird that’s built using that way. Those things are still going to work, but if you want to embed the actual rendering engine in a native app, some other app that isn’t fully Mozilla technology that’s not going to work anymore. And I was thinking about that and I was thinking about WebKit, this Open Source rendering engine that Apple put so much development effort into and then makes available to the world Open Source, and you get things like Google Chrome, you get things like all browsers on mobile phones, on Android phones even. What if Apple made the same decision and they said you know what we can no longer afford to maintain WebKit as this embeddable thing, we’re just going to keep working on WebKit for our own browser, if you guys want to have WebKit for yourselves you’re going to have to start supporting this rendering stuff?

Kevin: The one other thing I wanted to maybe discuss was this story about Camino. which is a little know web browser for the Mac, and it runs on the same rendering engine as Firefox, but it is a more native Mac application; this is something I suppose if you're a Mac power user you're probably going to care about, and I certainly count myself among those. When I was testing out Firefox 4 when it came out a couple weeks ago I was pleasantly surprised that Firefox 4 had native text areas on the Mac. Did I talk about this last show? I don't think I did. No. But the thing about the Mac that I like is that apps can really talk to each other in lots of different ways and you call this integration, and you know my email app talks to my to-do list app and both of these apps have shortcuts in them that I have with a text expander app that I can write text macros that are available system-wide, at least they were everywhere except in Firefox because Firefox previously it kind of drew its own text boxes; if it needed a text box rather than asking the Mac operating system please give me a text box with all of the functionality that comes with it, Firefox went oh no, no, no, I'm cross platform, I know how to draw a text box, I'll draw my own text box, and as a result you had these text boxes that if you were a power Mac user they lacked features; you couldn't hover over any word and hit control-command-d to get a dictionary definition, that's a little Mac tip of the day for you there. And these features were missing from Firefox until version 4, in version 4 all of the text fields they've gone out of their way to have — they still paint them using their Firefox cross platform way, but if you put your cursor into a text field it's like behind the scenes it draws a Mac native text field on top of it so you get all of those features you're used to having, and I was pleasantly surprised there. But up until Firefox 4, and Firefox 4 still has bits of it that are non-native and are annoying to Mac power users, Camino. has been about adding as much native Chrome to the browser experience as you could get, it's also a very trimmed down and efficient kind of browser, it's about being fast and slick and not having too many features, but the thing they rely on has always been being able to take the Firefox rendering engine, Gecko, embedding it in their application and then like drawing the browser around it. Well, Mozilla it seems has come to the decision that they are no longer going to be maintaining and supporting that way of using the Gecko rendering engine; basically Gecko is now going to be this tool that you use in Firefox or Thunderbird or other Mozilla apps, you can still build your own Mozilla based apps using their XUL technology where you invoke the Firefox engine and you use XUL programming language to define your whole user interface, you can still do that, so there are apps out there, there's a big iTunes competitor out there that's built on the Firefox engine that's called Songbird that's built using that way. Those things are still going to work, but if you want to embed the actual rendering engine in a native app, some other app that isn't fully Mozilla technology that's not going to work anymore. And I was thinking about that and I was thinking about WebKit, this Open Source rendering engine that Apple put so much development effort into and then makes available to the world Open Source, and you get things like Google Chrome, you get things like all browsers on mobile phones, on Android phones even. What if Apple made the same decision and they said you know what we can no longer afford to maintain WebKit as this embeddable thing, we're just going to keep working on WebKit for our own browser, if you guys want to have WebKit for yourselves you're going to have to start supporting this rendering stuff?

Stephan: I think for Google it’d be okay but for the smaller guys —

Stephan: I think for Google it'd be okay but for the smaller guys —

Brad: I would certainly expect Google to step up and take over the project, you would assume so anyway.

Kevin: The Camino. team is saying they’re going to finish the current release they’re working on and after that they’re not really sure what they’re going to do. It seems the obvious move would be for them to switch over to WebKit, but what happens if WebKit is next? In a world where people are tightening their belts and companies can no longer necessarily give away millions of dollars of engineering to the world for free this may change the browser landscape really significantly I think. Something worth thinking about, that’s my doomsday scenario of the day for you guys.

Kevin: The Camino. team is saying they're going to finish the current release they're working on and after that they're not really sure what they're going to do. It seems the obvious move would be for them to switch over to WebKit, but what happens if WebKit is next? In a world where people are tightening their belts and companies can no longer necessarily give away millions of dollars of engineering to the world for free this may change the browser landscape really significantly I think. Something worth thinking about, that's my doomsday scenario of the day for you guys.

Stephan: In a word Kevin. Such a downer, gosh.

Kevin: (Laughs) alright, well, it’s just about time for our spotlights, but before we do I want to cast a spotlight on one of my co-hosts here, and that is Brad. Brad, I want to congratulate you because I hear you’ve just gotten engaged.

Kevin: (Laughs) alright, well, it's just about time for our spotlights, but before we do I want to cast a spotlight on one of my co-hosts here, and that is Brad. Brad, I want to congratulate you because I hear you've just gotten engaged.

Brad: Ah, thank you, yes I did actually, and she said yes.

Kevin: Whoo hoo! A round of applause for Brad.

Patrick: Congratulations Brad and April.

Kevin: Yeah.

凯文：是的。

Brad: I’m pretty excited about it.

Brad: I'm pretty excited about it.

Kevin: Exciting news.

Brad: Very. And we actually just bought a house too, so a lot going on.

Patrick: I look forward to more walks in the rain in Vegas (laughter).

Kevin: Oh, yeah, that was good times. Alright, it’s host spotlight time, guys, and listeners if you’d like to send your words of congratulations please do drop by SitePoint.com/podcast and leave your best wishes for Brad and April. Who wants to lead off the Podcast charge?

Kevin: Oh, yeah, that was good times. Alright, it's host spotlight time, guys, and listeners if you'd like to send your words of congratulations please do drop by SitePoint.com/podcast and leave your best wishes for Brad and April. Who wants to lead off the Podcast charge?

Patrick: I’ll take it as Mr. off topic, I’ve kind of fell into my role, I appreciate it for what it is now. My spotlight is the new music video for a song called Play Your Part, it is by a rapper called Wale, featuring Rick Ross, Meek Mil and DA Wallach of Chester French, it’s a song that I like a lot, the video is just as cool, you can download the song for free at Rick Ross’ website Blowingmoneyfast.com, and at BlogWorld Expo when we were on that final day running around I had two panels I had to get to, and one of those panels actually featured DA and it went really well and I’ve been following him more and more now and it’s a really cool video, so definitely check it out.

Patrick: I'll take it as Mr. off topic, I've kind of fell into my role, I appreciate it for what it is now. My spotlight is the new music video for a song called Play Your Part, it is by a rapper called Wale, featuring Rick Ross, Meek Mil and DA Wallach of Chester French, it's a song that I like a lot, the video is just as cool, you can download the song for free at Rick Ross' website Blowingmoneyfast.com, and at BlogWorld Expo when we were on that final day running around I had two panels I had to get to, and one of those panels actually featured DA and it went really well and I've been following him more and more now and it's a really cool video, so definitely check it out.

Kevin: Alright, thank you, sir. Stephan, what’s your spotlight?

Kevin: Alright, thank you, sir. Stephan, what's your spotlight?

Stephan: So, today actually I saw this thing and I guess it came out March 25^th or the event took place March 25^th, but it’s a video of a talk of Mike Montiero, he’s known as Mikeforthewin on Twitter, he’s a developer for Mule Design Studio, or he’s a designer at Mule Design Studio, and it’s a really good video because it talks about being paid as a designer, or I think it applies to developers, the title of the talk is F U, Pay Me, it’s kind of profane.

Stephan: So, today actually I saw this thing and I guess it came out March 25 ^th or the event took place March 25 ^th , but it's a video of a talk of Mike Montiero, he's known as Mikeforthewin on Twitter, he's a developer for Mule Design Studio, or he's a designer at Mule Design Studio, and it's a really good video because it talks about being paid as a designer, or I think it applies to developers, the title of the talk is FU, Pay Me, it's kind of profane.

Kevin: Yeah, there’s some adult language in anything Mike does I’d say.

Kevin: Yeah, there's some adult language in anything Mike does I'd say.

Stephan: Yes, but it is very much worth a watch if you are a designer because it answers a lot of questions I think that new designers or even experienced designers have about dealing with clients and clients who don’t pay or want to get out of paying. Basically the answer to everything is have a contract. So, he talks a lot about how he’s gotten screwed in the past or come close to being screwed, and it’s a good video for people who are new to the game or freelancers who are just not protecting their interests; everyone wants to make money that they’ve earned and I think it’s a good video.

Stephan: Yes, but it is very much worth a watch if you are a designer because it answers a lot of questions I think that new designers or even experienced designers have about dealing with clients and clients who don't pay or want to get out of paying. Basically the answer to everything is have a contract. So, he talks a lot about how he's gotten screwed in the past or come close to being screwed, and it's a good video for people who are new to the game or freelancers who are just not protecting their interests; everyone wants to make money that they've earned and I think it's a good video.

Kevin: Great, thank you Stephan. My spotlight is an application called Take Five, I was talking about the Icon Factory before, the creators of Twitterrific, well, this is another app they’ve recently released, you can get it for your iPhone, you can get it for your Mac. And this app, Take Five, it’s for listening to music while working, this probably describes a lot of web developers that you like listening to music while you work, but every once in a while either a co-worker will interrupt you for a question or you find yourself reading something online or tackling an especially difficult problem and you want to pause your music for a moment, next thing you know it’s the end of the day and you have sat there in silence and you really wish you had music to brighten the rest of your day. Well, Take Five is this app that will control either the music playback on your iPhone or on iTunes on your desktop, and it’s basically a smart pause button, so when you get interrupted rather than pausing your music the normal way you just hit the Take Five icon and it pauses your music for five minutes, and after that five minutes the music comes back and gradually fades back in seamlessly without distracting you. And so rather than spending the rest of your day sitting in silence you spend the rest of the day cradled in your music the way you want it to be. It’s a really clever app, very beautifully designed, and yeah really nice, like if you find yourself, you know, your conversation is over after ten seconds and you remember that you wanted to go back to your music right away you can override it, you can drag the slider down to zero right away, but just a beautiful example of user interface design and it’s worth the couple of dollars they charge for it, so that’s my recommendation.

Kevin: Great, thank you Stephan. My spotlight is an application called Take Five, I was talking about the Icon Factory before, the creators of Twitterrific, well, this is another app they've recently released, you can get it for your iPhone, you can get it for your Mac. And this app, Take Five, it's for listening to music while working, this probably describes a lot of web developers that you like listening to music while you work, but every once in a while either a co-worker will interrupt you for a question or you find yourself reading something online or tackling an especially difficult problem and you want to pause your music for a moment, next thing you know it's the end of the day and you have sat there in silence and you really wish you had music to brighten the rest of your day. Well, Take Five is this app that will control either the music playback on your iPhone or on iTunes on your desktop, and it's basically a smart pause button, so when you get interrupted rather than pausing your music the normal way you just hit the Take Five icon and it pauses your music for five minutes, and after that five minutes the music comes back and gradually fades back in seamlessly without distracting you. And so rather than spending the rest of your day sitting in silence you spend the rest of the day cradled in your music the way you want it to be. It's a really clever app, very beautifully designed, and yeah really nice, like if you find yourself, you know, your conversation is over after ten seconds and you remember that you wanted to go back to your music right away you can override it, you can drag the slider down to zero right away, but just a beautiful example of user interface design and it's worth the couple of dollars they charge for it, so that's my recommendation.

Brad: That would leave me.

Kevin: Yes it would, Brad, what you got?

Brad: Alright, well, I’m a forward thinker, early adopter, everyone’s kind of hung up on HTML 5 this, HTML 5 that, but I’m actually done with HTML 5 so I’ve moved on to HTML 11 which they’re working on the specification now. So, just check out HTML11.org and you can see a preview of the update. So they’re introducing such tags as the wind tag, the smell tag, the taste tag, the x-ray tag is pretty neat, and as you click through they actually have detailed pages and even usage demos for these tags, so the wind tag for example has different classes available such as a breeze or a gale or a hurricane or a cyclone, and they have videos kind of demonstrating each one in action, but it’s a pretty neat site. So forget HTML 5, go right to 11, you’ll be at the head of the curve.

Brad: Alright, well, I'm a forward thinker, early adopter, everyone's kind of hung up on HTML 5 this, HTML 5 that, but I'm actually done with HTML 5 so I've moved on to HTML 11 which they're working on the specification now. So, just check out HTML11.org and you can see a preview of the update. So they're introducing such tags as the wind tag, the smell tag, the taste tag, the x-ray tag is pretty neat, and as you click through they actually have detailed pages and even usage demos for these tags, so the wind tag for example has different classes available such as a breeze or a gale or a hurricane or a cyclone, and they have videos kind of demonstrating each one in action, but it's a pretty neat site. So forget HTML 5, go right to 11, you'll be at the head of the curve.

Patrick: Where are the t-shirts?

Kevin: Was this announced on April 1^st by any chance, Brad?

Kevin: Was this announced on April 1 ^st by any chance, Brad?

Brad: Probably, it popped up on Twitter a few days ago, this might be in the April Fool’s Day territory, in fact, I don’t even know who’s actually running it because the entire site looks legit, they’ve got a Facebook fan page, so they’re ready, HTML 11.

Brad: Probably, it popped up on Twitter a few days ago, this might be in the April Fool's Day territory, in fact, I don't even know who's actually running it because the entire site looks legit, they've got a Facebook fan page, so they're ready, HTML 11.

Stephan: In the words of Charlie Sheen, this is winning right here (laughs).

Patrick: HTML 11 is everything.

Kevin: Well, that brings us to the end of the show, thank you guys as usual for your stellar job, and yeah, I may not be here next time, so until I am here again have a great one, thank you for listening to all the episodes we’ve done so far, and here’s to the next 100 or so. Let’s go around the table guys.

Kevin: Well, that brings us to the end of the show, thank you guys as usual for your stellar job, and yeah, I may not be here next time, so until I am here again have a great one, thank you for listening to all the episodes we've done so far, and here's to the next 100 or so. Let's go around the table guys.

Brad: I’m Brad Williams from Webdev Studios and you can find me on Twitter@williamsba.

Brad: I'm Brad Williams from Webdev Studios and you can find me on Twitter@williamsba.

Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network, I blog at Managingcommunities.com, on Twitter@ifroggy, i-f-r-o-g-g-y.

Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network, I blog at Managingcommunities.com, on Twitter@ifroggy, ifroggy.

Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves, you can find me online at badice.com and my Twitter handle is ssegraves.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves, you can find me online at badice.com and my Twitter handle is ssegraves.

Kevin: You can follow SitePoint on Twitter@sitepointdotcom, that’s SitePoint d-o-t-c-o-m, and follow me on Twitter@sentience. Visit the SitePoint podcast at SitePoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint Podcast is produced this week by Carl Longnecker and I’m Kevin Yank, bye for now.

Kevin: You can follow SitePoint on Twitter@sitepointdotcom, that's SitePoint dotcom, and follow me on Twitter@sentience. Visit the SitePoint podcast at SitePoint.com/podcast to leave comments on the show and to receive every show automatically. The SitePoint Podcast is produced this week by Carl Longnecker and I'm Kevin Yank, bye for now.

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Theme music by Mike Mella .

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we’re doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

Thanks for listening! Feel free to let us know how we're doing, or to continue the discussion, using the comments field below.

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/podcast-108-kevins-last-show/