Episode 152 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week the panel is made up of Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves) and Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy).

SitePoint Podcast的第152集现已发布！ 本周的座谈会由Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )和Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )组成。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #152: The Opposite Of Finland (MP3, 37:16, 35.8MB)

  SitePoint播客＃152：芬兰对面 (MP3，37:16，35.8MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

Here are the main topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主要主题：

• Has the address bar had its day? | Feature | .net magazine

  地址栏过得好吗？ | 功能| .net杂志

• VentureBeat Flubs Flickr/Pinterest Restrictions

  VentureBeat Flubs Flickr / Pinterest限制

• Ringmark

  环印

• Facebook Sends 60M Monthly Vistors to 3rd Party Apps – The Next Web

  Facebook将每月6000万名Vistors发送给3rd Party Apps – The Next Web

• Microsoft Reveals the New Windows 8 Logo » SitePoint

  微软发布新的Windows 8徽标»SitePoint

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/152.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/152中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

• Patrick: A Show with Ze Frank by Ze Frank — Kickstarter

  帕特里克(Patrick)： 与泽·弗兰克一起的表演

• Louis: Tower.js – Full Stack JavaScript Framework for Node.js and the Browser

  路易： Tower.js –用于Node.js和浏览器的全栈JavaScript框架

• Stephan: OpenGeocoder.net

  斯蒂芬： OpenGeocoder.net

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello and welcome to another episode of the SitePoint podcast. Got a bit of a panel show going on this week, unfortunately Kevin could not be with us, but Patrick and Stephan are both here, hi guys.

路易斯：您好，欢迎收看SitePoint播客的另一集。 不幸的是，凯文(Kevin)不能参加我们的本周的小组讨论，但是帕特里克(Patrick)和斯蒂芬(Stephan)都在这里，大家好。

Stephan: Howdy, howdy.

史蒂芬：你好，你好。

Patrick: Hey, it’s good to be here.

帕特里克：嘿，很高兴来到这里。

Louis: It’s good to be here for sure, how you guys been?

路易斯：肯定在这里很高兴，你们过得怎么样？

Stephan: Pretty good, pretty good.

史蒂芬：很好，很好。

Patrick: Pretty good, just working hard, keeping busy, looking forward to going to South by Southwest in about, what is it, two weeks, March 11th I’ll be headed — oh, I’m sorry, March 9th I’ll be heading out, and Kevin will be down there, get to see him and see a lot of other random interactive tech design people.

帕特里克(Patrick)：很好，只是努力工作，保持忙碌，期待大约西南偏南，这是什么呢，两个星期，3月11日，我将去—哦，很抱歉，3月9日，我将去离开时，凯文(Kevin)将在那儿，去见他，并看到许多其他随机互动技术设计人员。

Louis: Very nice.

路易斯：很好。

Patrick: It should be fun.

帕特里克：应该很有趣。

Louis: Yeah, I really, um, I should try and make it out there sometime, it’s a long flight when I was living in Quebec, but now it’s become an insane flight, so.

路易斯：是的，我真的，嗯，我应该设法在某个时候把它弄出来，当我住在魁北克时这是一段漫长的飞行，但是现在它变成了疯狂的飞行，所以。

Patrick: Yeah.

帕特里克：是的。

Louis: Maybe someday, but I’m not making it easy for myself.

路易斯：也许有一天，但我对自己而言并不容易。

Patrick: Yeah, it’s like another extra couple days in the air.

帕特里克：是的，好像又多了几天。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Patrick: Stephan knows all about that.

帕特里克：斯蒂芬对此一无所知。

Stephan: (Snickers)

史蒂芬： (Snickers)

Louis: Alright. So, what’s new on the Web this week, who wants to kick it off?

路易斯：好吧。 那么，本周网络上有什么新消息，谁想开始呢？

Patrick: Well, I’ll go ahead and kick it off with a story from .net Magazine, which gave us the Podcast of the Year Award a couple years ago, thank you for that again (laughter).

帕特里克(Patrick)：好吧，我将继续讲一个.net杂志的故事，它在几年前为我们颁发了年度播客奖，再次感谢您(笑声)。

Louis: We’re just never gonna get over that.

路易斯：我们永远都不会克服这一点。

Patrick: Yeah, it’s like give it to us again please, no. Anyway, kind of an interesting fodder story, not really news, but the story is Has the Address Bar had Its Day by Gus Andrews, and it talks about how Safari, Chrome and Firefox have experimented with getting rid of the address bar and how it has maintained nonetheless, covers some different viewpoints, like Jacob Nielson who says that he would support the idea of temporarily hiding elements of the interface like the address bar, but warned that “doing so is dangerous, what’s out of sight is often out of mind, and you definitely cannot rely on short-term memory in user interface design,” and that’s a quote from him. And other people say the address bar is a security feature because it shows people that they are on the right website, and then you have Jeffery Zeldman and Kevin Hoffman at Happy Cog who say it’s often a feature for advanced users because a lot of more novice people who surf the Web don’t really go to the address bar, they use the search engines or like Google.com and they type in addresses into the search box or find a website through some sort of search engine. So, yeah, I mean what is the thinking here, what do you think, Louis, about the address bar, is it something we can do without?

帕特里克：是的，这就像请再给我们，不。 无论如何，这是一个有趣的饲料故事，不是真正的新闻，但故事是格斯·安德鲁斯(Gus Andrews)的《地址栏有它的日子》，它谈到了Safari，Chrome和Firefox如何尝试摆脱地址栏以及它是如何进行的。尽管如此，他仍然保留了一些不同的观点，例如Jacob Nielson表示他将支持暂时隐藏地址栏(如地址栏)的想法，但是警告说“这样做很危险，通常看不见的东西，您绝对不能在用户界面设计中依赖短期记忆。”这是他的名言。 还有人说地址栏是一项安全功能，因为它可以向人们显示他们在正确的网站上，然后您可以在Happy Cog看到Jeffery Zeldman和Kevin Hoffman，他们说这通常是高级用户的功能，因为更多新手在网上冲浪的人并没有真正去地址栏，他们使用搜索引擎或类似Google.com的方式，而是在搜索框中输入地址或通过某种搜索引擎查找网站。 所以，是的，我的意思是，这里的想法是什么，路易斯，关于地址栏，您认为我们可以做些什么吗？

Louis: Not, definitely not; I don’t think so. I think that the address bar, first of all, I think both of those points are valid, one, you want your users to have an awareness of where they are, and even if it’s just peripheral vision this is what’s going on, and if you look at the way Firefox displays security certificate information in the address bar makes it very clear what the signing authority is and where you are, that’s one thing, but I also agree with this sort of power user feature, and I think it makes sense, especially if your application or your website is well designed and your URL structure is well thought out, it gives your users, and not even necessarily just power users, but it gives all your users the ability to use the URL bar as an interface into your application. For example when I’m using Twitter, yes, there are ways within the application to easily find somebody’s profile —

路易斯：不，绝对不是； 我不这么认为。 我认为地址栏首先要对这两点都有效，其中之一是，您希望用户对自己的位置有所了解，即使只是外围视觉，这就是发生的事情；如果您查看Firefox在地址栏中显示安全证书信息的方式可以很清楚地知道签名机构是什么以及您在哪里，这是一回事，但是我也同意这种高级用户功能，并且我认为这很有意义，尤其是如果您的应用程序或网站设计合理且URL结构经过深思熟虑，它可以为您的用户提供服务，甚至不一定是高级用户，但它可以使所有用户都可以使用URL栏作为你的申请。 例如，当我使用Twitter时，是的，应用程序中有多种方法可以轻松找到某人的个人资料-

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Louis: — but none of them are anywhere near as fast as just going to twitter.com/ifroggy, for example, right; so I’ll get — if I’m looking at the interface and I want to jump to somebody’s profile, the first thing I’d do is go to the URL bar because Twitter has used this really simple, logical structure for the way that URL’s work, and once you’ve been using the app for even a little bit of time you figure that out and you can hop from place to place, and it’s always going to be faster than using the interface and clicking around and trying to search for things.

路易斯： —但是，没有一个比去twitter.com/ifroggy快得多。 所以我会得到-如果我正在查看界面，并且想跳到某人的个人资料，那么我要做的第一件事就是转到URL栏，因为Twitter使用了这种非常简单的逻辑结构， URL的工作原理，一旦您使用了该应用程序一小段时间，您就会发现该问题，并且可以从一个地方跳到另一个地方，它总是比使用界面并单击并尝试搜索更快。为了这些事。

Patrick: Yeah, I’m just like you, if I know the username I go to the address bar. Now, is that a side effect of our advanced-ness do you think? Are we that high-level; is that not something that common people do?

帕特里克：是的，我就像你一样，如果我知道用户名，我会转到地址栏。 现在，您认为这是我们先进性的副作用吗？ 我们是高层次的吗？ 那不是普通人做的事吗？

Louis: You see I tend to think it’s probably something that the more visible the URL bar is, and as people are aware of it, it’s something that it’s there as an option for everyone, right, it doesn’t take very long to figure out using something like Twitter where people’s public handles are well known, you know, you know what someone’s user ID is in Twitter, whereas a lot of applications where you might not be exposed to people’s usernames, so even if you wanted to jump to their profile you wouldn’t know how. But there are plenty of applications where jumping to a category or jumping to different parts of the site are really easily accomplished through the address bar, and I think that having a good set of URL’s — now, there are plenty of applications that have terrible, terrible URL’s that mean nothing and that are just long strings of gibberish, and in those cases, yeah, the user doesn’t get any benefit out of it, but I think it makes sense to have that door open. And whether or not it’s a power user thing, you want the path for a regular user to become a power user to be available, right, and you’re never going to figure out how to use the URL bars and interface if you don’t see it, and you’re not going to suddenly decide to turn it on, so when you start using the Internet I think it’s an important way of understanding how the Internet works, that you’ve addresses, that there are pages at those addresses, and you jump between them either by links in the page or by going there directly.

路易斯：您看我倾向于认为它可能是URL栏更可见的部分，并且正如人们所知道的那样，它是所有人都可以选择的东西，对，不需要花费很长时间可以使用Twitter之类的众所周知的公共句柄之类的东西，您知道，您知道某人的用户ID在Twitter中，而许多应用程序可能不会暴露给人们的用户名，因此即使您想跳转到他们的用户名个人资料，您将不会。 但是，有很多应用程序可以很容易地通过地址栏完成跳转到类别或跳转到网站的不同部分的操作，而且我认为拥有一套不错的URL –现在，很多应用程序都非常糟糕，可怕的URL毫无意义，只是一长串乱七八糟的东西，是的，用户并没有从中受益，但是我认为打开那扇门是有意义的。 而且，无论它是否是高级用户，您都希望普通用户成为高级用户的路径是正确的，并且如果您不打算使用URL栏和界面，则永远不会想出如何使用它。看不到它，并且您不会突然决定打开它，所以当您开始使用Internet时，我认为这是了解Internet工作方式，您要处理的内容以及在这些页面上都有页面的一种重要方式地址，然后您可以通过页面中的链接或直接转到该链接在它们之间跳转。

Patrick: Yeah, I think that’s a great point, and I think what we’re talking about here is really hiding the address bar, because you can’t really get rid of it totally, but hiding it at least until someone gestures or they move to a certain area, and what you just said speaks to what Nielson said basically being out of sight out of mind; if people don’t see the address bar when they first get onto, you know, the Web, or at least start surfing heavily let’s say, then they’re not going to think to go check for it, they’re not going to look to see where they are on the Web or what the address is. And some would say maybe that’s a good thing because it simplifies the experience, but then others would say it’s not a good thing and there’s really no benefit to not knowing where you are, so I think that’s a great point, and I’m proud to say that my mom uses the address bar.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我认为这是个好主意，我想我们在这里所说的实际上是隐藏地址栏，因为您不能完全摆脱它，而至少要隐藏它，直到有人打手势或他们示意。移到某个区域，您刚才所说的与尼尔森所说的基本上是不合时宜的。 如果人们第一次进入网络时没有看到地址栏，或者至少开始大量浏览，那么他们就不会考虑去检查它，他们不会去看看他们在网上的位置或地址是什么。 有些人会说这可能是一件好事，因为它简化了体验，但是其他人会说这不是好事，不知道自己在哪里也没有任何好处，所以我认为这很重要，我为此感到自豪说我妈妈使用地址栏。

Louis: (Laughs) but to come back to the point you were making of hiding it when it’s not in use, every browser currently does that in full screen mode, so when you full screen your browser the address bar is not visible until you move your mouse to the top of the window, so I think that’s something that anyone can do pretty easily at the moment, I don’t think — I don’t know, you know, maybe there’s something to be gained from changing that, I don’t think so, I think especially I understand on mobile devices, and that’s pretty much already the case that you don’t see the URL bar because there’s just not enough screen real estate, but, you know, with the size of monitors and the increasing pixel densities, even on small laptop screens that we’re seeing now, I don’t think those pixels are that crucial.

路易斯：(笑)但要回到原来的状态，即不使用它时将其隐藏，目前每个浏览器都以全屏模式执行此操作，因此当全屏浏览器时，直到您将其移动时，地址栏才可见您将鼠标移到窗口顶部，所以我认为这是目前任何人都可以轻松完成的事情，我不认为-我不知道，您知道，也许改变这一点会有所收获，我别这样，我想尤其是我在移动设备上了解，并且您几乎看不到网址栏的情况已经存在，因为屏幕空间不足，但是您知道显示器的大小而且像素密度不断提高，即使在我们现在看到的小型笔记本电脑屏幕上，我也不认为这些像素至关重要。

Stephan: And if you want to hide it you can, right, I mean if you don’t want to see it you can hide it yourself, so, if the real estate’s really that important to you then you have the option, but I think it stays, it should stay, it’s important to the user.

斯蒂芬：如果您想隐藏它，可以，对，我的意思是，如果您不想看到它，您可以自己隐藏它，因此，如果房地产对您来说真的很重要，那么您可以选择，但我认为它会留下，应该留下来，这对用户很重要。

Patrick: It’s really the battle of defaults is what this is about, battle of defaults, what should be there when they first open it before it’s customized.

帕特里克(Patrick)：真正的默认问题之战就是它的含义，默认之战，在他们被定制之前第一次打开它时应该有什么。

Stephan: Yeah. I think the address bar needs to stay, personally, and maybe it’s just the way I browse, but I like it, I like having it there.

斯蒂芬：是的。 我认为地址栏需要个人保留，也许这只是我浏览的方式，但是我喜欢它，我喜欢在那儿保存它。

Patrick: Alright, that seems like a good finishing point. Anybody want to go next?

帕特里克：好的，这似乎是一个很好的终点。 有人要下一步吗？

Stephan: The story I have is actually kind of some conflict going on in the Flickr Pinterest world, and some of the hubbub around Pinterest using content that is not necessarily made public to people. This originally broke, this story originally broke about VentureBeat had an article about Pinterest.

斯蒂芬：我的故事实际上是Flickr Pinterest世界中发生的一些冲突，以及围绕Pinterest一些喧嚣使用的内容不一定要向公众公开。 这个最初是破裂的，这个故事最初是破裂的，有关VentureBeat的一篇关于Pinterest的文章。

Louis: So can we step back one tiny step here and talk about Pinterest for a little bit, because I had not heard about it until something like last week, so I’m assuming there are probably a bunch of people who don’t know what Pinterest is.

路易斯：所以我们可以在这里稍作一步，再谈一点Pinterest，因为直到上周我才听说过Pinterest，所以我假设可能有一堆不认识的人什么是Pinterest。

Patrick: And here I was calling you an advance user (laughter).

帕特里克(Patrick)：在这里，我叫您高级用户(笑声)。

Stephan: I may not be the best person to explain it.

史蒂芬：我可能不是最好的解释者。

Louis: I’m an advanced user of the Internet, I don’t like crocheted owls.

路易斯：我是互联网的高级用户，我不喜欢钩针猫头鹰。

Patrick: Okay, ahhhh, okay, so this is what Pinterest is described as from Wikipedia: Pinterest is a Pinboard styled social photo sharing website. The service allows users to create and manage theme-based image collections. The site’s mission statement is to connect everyone in the world through the things they find interesting. So, basically Pinterest allows you to take images from whether it be an article, it could be the header image of an article, and pin that article with the header image on Pinterest, it could be photography, it could be product images, and basically you’re collecting things that you like or things that fit a theme or things that you’re interested in. And that could be any photo, and it then reproduces the photo to Pinterest’s website, you can organize those into categories or pen boards, and then other people can view them and follow you and so forth, and that’s basically what the site is.

帕特里克(Patrick)：好的，嗯，好的，这就是Wikipedia对Pinterest描述：Pinterest是Pinboard风格的社交照片共享网站。 该服务允许用户创建和管理基于主题的图像集合。 该网站的使命宣言是通过他们发现有趣的事物来联系世界上的每个人。 因此，基本上，Pinterest允许您从文章或文章的标题图像中获取图像，并将该文章与标题图像固定在Pinterest上，可以是摄影图像，也可以是产品图像，您正在收集自己喜欢的东西或适合主题的东西或您感兴趣的东西。可以是任何照片，然后将照片复制到Pinterest网站上，您可以将它们组织成类别或笔板，然后其他人可以查看它们并关注您，依此类推，这基本上就是该网站。

Stephan: I like to think of it as visual bookmarking, that’s really the way I see it.

斯蒂芬：我喜欢将其视为视觉书签，这就是我所看到的方式。

Patrick: The public.

帕特里克：公众。

Stephan: Maybe I’m — yeah, public.

斯蒂芬：也许我是-是的，公开。

Louis: Yeah. Do you guys use it?

路易斯：是的。 你们用吗？

Stephan: No.

斯蒂芬：不。

Patrick: I have an account, and I’ve used it a little bit, but I am a little uneasy with it, and I guess I’ll go into that after Stephan explains the story here.

帕特里克(Patrick)：我有一个帐户，我已经使用了一点，但是我对此有些不安，我想我会在斯蒂芬(Stephan)在这里讲故事之后再讲。

Stephan: And my wife uses it. She doesn’t use it a lot but she does use it, so, that’s how I knew about all this. And then Patrick Tweeted about it. Anyway, so what happened was Pinterest they use, like Patrick said, they use public images, images that are out there on the Internet anywhere, and they reproduce them on their website as part of your pin board, and just recently they came with some code that allowed you to stop Pinterest from taking those photographs, and this was kind of after some outrage of people finding their photographs on Pinterest, and they were copyrighted or they were protected.

史蒂芬：我的妻子用它。 她并没有经常使用它，但确实使用了它，所以，这就是我对所有这些的了解。 然后帕特里克(Patrick)发表了推文。 无论如何，就像Patrick所说的那样，他们使用的是Pinterest，他们使用公共图像，这些图像在Internet上的任何地方都存在，并且将它们复制到您的网站上作为您的广告板的一部分，而最近它们还附带了一些允许您阻止Pinterest拍摄这些照片的代码，这是在人们对在Pinterest上找到他们的照片感到愤慨之后进行的，并且这些照片已获得版权或受保护。

Louis: So this is like a meta tag, sort of, if anyone uses the meta no-follow, no-index.

路易斯：所以这就像一个meta标签，某种程度上，如果有人使用meta no-follow，no-index。

Patrick: Yeah.

帕特里克：是的。

Louis: For the Google bot, for example, the robots meta tag this is very similar, and it’s a no-pin tag that you just put in your page and it means the images will not be posted by Pinterest.

路易斯：对于Google机器人而言，它的机器人元标记非常相似，它只是一个没有固定的标记，您只需将其放置在页面中即可，这意味着图片不会被Pinterest发布。

Stephan: Exactly, yes. And so Flickr implemented this on all images that are marked as private, that are marked as adult only, and where the user has explicitly disabled sharing of the image, so, they can’t be pinned. Originally this story came out as Flickr was blocking all photos from Pinterest that have copyrights attached to them, so that’s not true, and Aaron Hockley has a fairly good write-up about this and what the actual restrictions are the Flickr’s put in place. I don’t know, what do you guys think about this? I think it’s good that they came out with code if you want to block people from using your images on Pinterest, but what’s the endgame here, what do we want?

斯蒂芬：是的，是的。 因此，Flickr在所有标记为私有的图像，仅标记为成人的图像以及用户已明确禁用图像共享的位置上实施了此操作，因此无法固定它们。 最初是因为Flickr阻止了Pinterest上所有带有版权的照片而出现的，所以事实并非如此，Aaron Hockley对此写了相当不错的文章，并对Flickr的实际限制做了什么。 我不知道，你们对此怎么看？ 我想如果您想阻止人们在Pinterest上使用您的图片，他们会带出代码很好，但是这里的结局是什么，我们想要什么？

Louis: When do we want it?

路易：我们什么时候想要它？

Stephan: Yes, what do we want and when do we want it?

斯蒂芬：是的，我们想要什么，什么时候想要？

Patrick: Take a step back one more time to finish the whole ‘how Pinterest works’ story. Basically you have how most people do it is you have a Pinterest, a pin-it button in your browser, you’re on website with a photo, you press that button, it takes you to Pinterest, you select the photo you want to use from that page, it takes the photo in full, puts it on Pinterest, and links the photo to the page where you got it from, and also there’s a small credit link beneath the photo, I believe, so that’s how it works.

帕特里克：再退一步，完成整个“ Pinterest运作方式”故事。 基本上，您有大多数人会这样做的，就是您的浏览器中有一个Pinterest，一个固定按钮，您在网站上有照片，按下该按钮，然后转到Pinterest，然后选择您想要的照片在该页面上使用，它会完整地拍摄照片，并将其放在Pinterest上，并将照片链接到您从中获取照片的页面，而且我相信照片下面还有一个小小的信用链接，因此便可以使用。

Louis: Right, so nothing terribly new there; that’s not particularly different from how Facebook shares links, except that when you post a shared link to Facebook you’ve got a small thumbnail of the image and a big text description, and when you post it to Pinterest you’ve got a big photo and no text description but there’s still both links.

路易斯：对，那里没有什么新鲜的东西。 这与Facebook共享链接的方式没有特别的不同，不同之处在于，当您将共享链接发布到Facebook时，您会得到一张图片的小缩略图和一个大文本说明，而当您将其发布到Pinterest时，您会收到一张大照片。并且没有文字说明，但仍然有两个链接。

Patrick: Right. What you get with Facebook is, like you said, the thumbnail, of which is kind of a big deal, and that’s one of the reasons why a lot of people are uncomfortable with it because they take the photo in full, the full size high-quality photo, and they reproduce it on their website. And here in the United States we have the fair use exception to copyright law, and when people talk about thumbnails and the usage of thumbnails, and specifically the ruling is Perfect Ten v. Google, and basically that ruling said that Google served thumbnails in search results, thumbnails, right, not full images, so that ruling isn’t going to help Pinterest because Pinterest reproduces the whole work, there’s no fair use really if all you do is take the photo and republish it, so that is sort of a sticking point with Pinterest right now and a lot of people who are criticizing it. In addition to that, they not only take the photo but they strip out the Metadata that’s in the photo itself, which some photographers have taken issue with, and also in their terms of service they reserve the right to sell the work that’s pinned to the website, so understandably some photographers are upset with that. In addition, on their website they encourage people to pin images from any website; there’s a difference between saying you can upload it to your photo gallery here then you tell people to go out and just pin it from any website. And the final issue that I noticed with them that was kind of strange, and this is kind of — Flickr’s a good example of them, and maybe them taking a little too many liberties, is if you know Flickr you know they have a license on all their photos, it’s right there on the page, and it’s either a copyright all rights reserved or it’s a creative commons license, often as creative commons, and that data is there to read. I use a plugin for WordPress called Photo Dropper, and that’s what I include in my blog post is images through this plugin, Photo Dropper, where I can search for creative commons licensed images that allow for commercial use, and then it automatically inserts the image in a way with the proper citation, that means not only Flickr’s community guidelines but also the creative commons license. And so they could’ve got that license data, but instead they just disregard it and take everything, and so Flickr is now in the position of kind of I would say defending their community in a way, which is of photographers and creative people who often care about how their stuff is used, and giving people the option; Flickr users have the option to enable sharing and enable Pinterest or disable it. So, right now Pinterest is a hot topic and it’s on kind of tricky legal ground, so I guess we’ll have to see how it works out, but I hope that they take some better steps to manage their platform a little better. I don’t know how it’s going to work long-term though just because you can’t get around the fact that they’re taking full images and then competing with those images in search engines, and, yeah, it’s gonna be tough.

帕特里克：对。 就像您说的，使用Facebook可获得的是缩略图，这很重要，这就是为什么很多人不满意它的原因之一，因为他们将照片全张了，全尺寸拍了高品质的照片，他们将其复制到自己的网站上。 在美国，我们有版权法的合理使用例外条款，当人们谈论缩略图和缩略图的用法时，特别是裁定是Perfect Ten v。Google，该裁定基本上说Google在搜索中提供了缩略图结果，缩略图，正确的图像，而不是完整的图像，因此裁定不会对Pinterest有所帮助，因为Pinterest会复制整个作品，如果您所做的只是拍摄照片并重新发布，实际上并没有合理的用途，所以这有点像目前，Pinterest症结所在和很多批评它的人。 除此之外，他们不仅可以拍摄照片，还可以去除照片本身所包含的元数据，有些摄影师对此提出了质疑，并且在服务方面，他们保留出售固定在照片上的作品的权利。网站，所以可以理解，有些摄影师对此感到不满。 此外，他们鼓励人们在他们的网站上钉牢来自任何网站的图像； 说您可以将其上传到此处的照片库，然后告诉其他人出去并仅从任何网站将其固定，这是有区别的。 我注意到他们的最后一个问题有点奇怪，这有点像-Flickr是他们的一个很好的例子，也许他们享有太多的自由，如果您知道Flickr，就知道他们拥有许可证他们所有的照片都放在页面上，或者是版权所有，或者是创用CC许可，通常是创用CC，可以在那里读取数据。 我使用了一个名为Photo Dropper的WordPress插件，这就是我在博客中发布的通过该插件Photo Dropper生成的图像，我可以在其中搜索可用于商业用途的创作共用许可图像，然后自动插入该图像。在适当引用的情况下，这不仅意味着Flickr的社区准则，而且意味着创用CC许可。 因此，他们本可以拥有该许可证数据，但是他们只是不理会许可证并采取一切措施，因此Flickr现在处于一种可以捍卫自己的社区的地位，其中包括摄影师和富有创造力的人经常关心他们的东西如何使用，并给人们选择的余地； Flickr用户可以选择启用共享并启用或禁用Pinterest。 因此，目前Pinterest是一个热门话题，它基于某种棘手的法律依据，所以我想我们必须看看它是如何工作的，但我希望他们采取一些更好的步骤来更好地管理自己的平台。 我不知道它如何长期运行，尽管仅仅是因为您无法绕开它们拍摄完整图像然后在搜索引擎中与这些图像竞争的事实，是的，这将是艰难的。

Louis: Alright. So a couple of things, first of all, the last thing I want to do is get into a debate with Patrick about copyright because that’ll go on forever, but what I want to say is that personally if it’s my website and my work then the more links the better, and I don’t particularly care if it’s the full version or a small version that’s posted, if it’s linking back to the source then obviously anyone who sees an image they like is more likely to go and see, oh, is there more stuff in the same vein at this place where this came from, so I don’t see a reason to get upset about that. Then for me the no-pin tag really does accomplish the required objective, especially now that Flickr’s given its users the option of having that automatically applied if they choose to make the photo private then it won’t be re-shared, that’s great, so Flickr users have that option, it makes sense for other sites to do a similar thing to give users who are uploading photos the option of making this Metadata available to stop it from being re-shared. And, finally, in terms of the shaky legal grounds, it just doesn’t seem like, you know, there’s so much stuff out there that exists where people have been posting, for example, music and videos and clips of movies, and you know those are on even shakier legal grounds, and they do get shut down fairly frequently, but it just seems like there’s nowhere near as strong a photography industry as there is the record industry or Hollywood, so it seems like the challengers to this type of infringement, if it is infringement, are going to be a lot weaker and less frequent, so I don’t see — it seem unlikely that this kind of behavior on the part of Pinterest or other sites like it would change anytime soon.

路易斯：好吧。 因此，首先要做的几件事是与Patrick讨论版权问题，因为版权问题将永远持续下去，但是我想说的是，如果这是我的网站和我的工作，个人而言然后，链接越多越好，并且我不特别在乎发布的是完整版还是小版，如果链接回源，则显然任何人看到自己喜欢的图像都更有可能去看，哦，这是从这个地方来的，还有更多东西在同一个地方，所以我看不出有什么理由为此感到沮丧。 那么对我来说，无固定标签确实可以实现所需的目标，尤其是现在Flickr为其用户提供了一种选择，即如果他们选择将照片设为私人照片，则可以自动应用该标签，那么它将不会被重新共享，这很好，因此Flickr用户可以选择该选项，其他站点也可以做类似的事情，使上传照片的用户可以选择使该元数据可用，以防止其被重新共享。 最后，就不稳定的法律依据而言，人们似乎并没有发布太多东西，例如音乐，视频和电影剪辑，而您却知道这些都是基于更不稳定的法律依据，而且确实确实经常被关闭，但是似乎没有像唱片业或好莱坞这样强大的摄影业，所以似乎是这类挑战者侵权(如果是侵权的话)将变得虚弱得多且不那么频繁，因此我看不到-Pinterest或其他类似网站的这种行为似乎不太可能很快改变。

Patrick: So I don’t want to get into a debate with you either, but I will say a couple things. Obviously if you want and appreciate and desire people to take your photos and put them elsewhere that’s certainly the right you have, you know, that’s not the same application of rights that everyone will want to share with you, and the other thing is that you say anyone will visit a website if they see something they like and click through it, no, they won’t; at the end of the day if the full work is reproduced then in many cases they simply will not go farther than just viewing the photo, and maybe you have to spend some time with Pinterest also to learn kind of the functionality, but a lot of it is like, re-pin, like, re-pin, so a lot of it isn’t going anywhere. You could argue about the commercial impact of that certainly, but at the end of the day there is a lot of photos being taken, and the tricky part, as you said, is that the industry is there, photographers are there, but photos don’t seem to command the same level of, I don’t know what it is, sensitivity, whatever it might be, as video and audio, and it’s a tricky thing because a lot of people just take images for their blog posts.

帕特里克(Patrick)：所以我也不想和您辩论，但我会说几件事。 显然，如果您希望并欣赏和希望人们拍摄照片并将其放置在其他地方，那肯定是您拥有的权利，这不是每个人都希望与您分享的权利的适用，而另一件事是您如果有人看到喜欢的东西并单击它，则说任何人都将访问该网站，不，他们不会； 在一天结束时，如果复制了全部作品，那么在很多情况下，它们只是比查看照片更远，也许您不得不花一些时间在Pinterest上学习一些功能，但是很多就像重新固定，就像重新固定，所以很多东西都没有用。 您当然可以争论其对商业的影响，但是最终还是要拍摄很多照片，而您说的棘手的部分是，这个行业存在，摄影师在那里，但是照片却没有我似乎不知道它和视频和音频具有相同的水平，我不知道它是什么，敏感性，无论可能是什么，这是一件棘手的事情，因为很多人只是为自己的博客帖子拍摄图像。

Louis: Well, that’s just because they’re not a multi-billion dollar industry.

路易斯：恩，那仅仅是因为它们不是一个价值数十亿美元的产业。

Patrick: Well, photography’s a big industry.

帕特里克：嗯，摄影是一个大行业。

Louis: Well, it’s not Hollywood is what I’m saying; I’m not saying it’s not a big industry, but there’s an issue of scale here.

路易斯：恩，我说的不是好莱坞。 我并不是说这不是一个大行业，但是这里存在规模问题。

Patrick: Right, I mean Getty Images, AP, right, I mean there’s a lot of photo agencies that make a lot of money selling photos, so I don’t know if it’s as big, it’s not as big as those industries but it’s still a pretty big thing, and also it’s worth point out, I know you’re not familiar with Pinterest, but this isn’t like a small operation, they’ve received at least 37.5 million in fundings so far, so they have money is what I’m saying to explore things, it’s not like it’s one person running it and surprised by the success, so with all of that money is also going to come a burden or responsibility to find a way to make this work, so I guess we’ll have to keep an eye on it and see how it goes with them.

帕特里克：对，我的意思是盖蒂图片社，美联社，对，我的意思是，有很多摄影社赚钱赚钱，所以我不知道它是否那么大，不如那些行业那么大，但是仍然是一件非常大的事情，值得指出的是，我知道您对Pinterest并不熟悉，但这并不是一个小规模的业务，到目前为止，他们已经获得了至少3750万美元的资金，所以他们有钱我说的是探索事物，不是像一个人运行它并为成功感到惊讶，因此，所有这些钱也将成为负担或责任，以找到一种方法来完成这项工作，所以我猜想我们将不得不密切关注它，并观察它们如何发展。

Louis: Yep, definitely. Moving on, I had a story this week which came out of Facebook’s technology blog just yesterday. So, Facebook has released a mobile browser test suite that they are calling Ringmark, basically it’s this little application that can run in your mobile device, and what it does is it provides this very thorough test of all different types of functionality that exists in the browser so things even from the most basic CSS and Canvass and HTML5 audio and video going to things like WebGL for 3D, and all sorts of things like that. So it’s really interesting, you can load it up in your mobile device directly by going to rng.io, and the goal here is that it’s a tool for mobile developers, or mobile web developers, to be able to look at a device and figure out very thoroughly what’s supported. And one of the things that’s interesting about it is that the goal is to try and find out whether the feature actually works, right, so I don’t know if you’re familiar with sort of JavaScript feature detection, but a lot of feature detection just goes along the lines of checking window.geolocation and if that is defined, if that exists and it’s not undefined in the browser then we just assume that geolocation works, whereas this set of tests are much, or from what I understand, are much more thorough, so they actually go to the trouble of trying to create objects and play around with them and poke at the API to really make sure that the feature is really supported and usable. So, yeah, very interesting. And so right now the software is not open source, however, what’s in this blog post it says that it will soon be open source and will be donated to the W3C; I don’t know why that wasn’t done from the get-go, but, look, if they stay true to that word and it does eventually become open source and donated to the W3C then I think it’s a great thing.

路易斯：是的 ，当然。 继续前进，本周我有一个故事是在昨天的Facebook技术博客中发表的。 因此，Facebook已发布了一个移动浏览器测试套件，他们称其为Ringmark ，基本上是可以在您的移动设备上运行的这个小应用程序，它的作用是为该功能中存在的所有不同类型的功能提供了非常全面的测试。浏览器，甚至从最基本CSS和Canvas，HTML5音频和视频到WebGL for 3D之类的东西，以及诸如此类的东西。 因此，这真的很有趣，您可以通过转到rng.io直接将其加载到移动设备中，此处的目标是使它成为移动开发人员或移动Web开发人员能够查看设备和图形的工具。非常彻底地支持了什么。 有趣的是，目的是尝试找出该功能是否真正起作用，对，所以我不知道您是否熟悉某种JavaScript功能检测，但是很多功能检测只是沿着检查window.geolocation的路线进行，如果已定义，如果存在，并且在浏览器中不是未定义的，那么我们仅假设地理定位有效，而这组测试很多，或者据我所知更全面，所以他们实际上要尝试创建对象并尝试使用它们，然后拨入API以真正确保该功能得到真正支持和使用。 所以，是的，非常有趣。 因此，目前该软件还不是开源的，但是，在此博客文章中，该软件表示它将很快成为开源的，并将捐赠给W3C。 我不知道为什么从一开始就没有做到这一点，但是，看，如果他们忠于这个词，并且它最终成为开源并捐赠给W3C，那么我认为这是一件了不起的事情。

Stephan: So my question for you, Louis, is this: how does this — this is actually just testing a device, right, the browser of the device, so it’s just going through a bunch of tests and saying this browser supports Canvass or this browser supports WebGL or whatever it is, and giving you kind of a lowdown on that; it looks like it has kind of a debug screen. What would be the use for this, I mean are people going to sit around with 50 devices and see what this supported?

史蒂芬：路易斯，我想问您的是：这是怎么做的？实际上，这只是在测试设备，对设备的浏览器进行测试，因此它只是经过大量测试，并说该浏览器支持Canvass或浏览器支持WebGL或其任何形式，并为您提供了一些低调； 看起来好像有一个调试屏幕。 这有什么用，我的意思是人们会坐着50台设备，看看它支持什么吗？

Louis: Right. So that’s one thing that’s kind of tricky, but it does at least give you a very quick overview of what’s supported on a given device, but that’s obviously not a really — like you said, it’s not a really useful workflow to just sit there with a device, hit this thing and watch what it supports, and then hit it with another device in order to be able to develop your app. However, if the tests are all open sourced then that opens up a lot more possibilities, right, because a tool like Modernizr does something very similar, although it just really detects the presence or absence of a given feature, it’s not really thorough testing, but in this case if you had access to say the test code to ensure that a feature that you want to use is not only present but works as expected in the browser, then you can incorporate that into your application and either provide a fallback or just provide messaging to the user saying this app requires WebGL, for example, and it’s not supported on your device.

路易斯：对。 所以这是一件棘手的事情，但这至少可以使您快速了解给定设备所支持的功能，但这显然不是一个真正的问题-就像您所说的那样，坐在那里并不是一个真正有用的工作流程一台设备，点击此东西并查看其支持的功能，然后再用另一台设备点击它，以便能够开发您的应用。 但是，如果测试全部是开源的，那么这就带来了更多的可能性，对，因为诸如Modernizr之类的工具所做的事情非常相似，尽管它实际上只是检测到给定功能的存在与否，但这并不是真正的彻底测试，但是在这种情况下，如果您有权说出测试代码以确保不仅要使用您要使用的功能，而且可以在浏览器中正常使用它，则可以将其合并到您的应用程序中并提供后备功能或仅向用户提供消息，例如说此应用需要WebGL，并且您的设备不支持该应用。

Stephan: I got you, I got you. So it’s kind of like you could build your library, put it in your library of code, yeah.

史蒂芬：我懂了，我懂了。 所以有点像您可以构建您的库，然后将其放入代码库中。

Louis: Yeah, the actual visual thing where you just go to it on your browser and it tells you everything that your browser supports is nice and it’s good to be able to — and that might also help browser makers and mobile device makers test out their devices, I mean that’s not — we’re not sure whether this is something they would actually use, but if they do then that’s potentially powerful, right, because it’s nice green circles and you want your new phone to have lots of green circles, right. So if it pushes browser makers in the right direction then that’s great, but on top of that if you can rip out the little bits of the test library and use them in your code, specifically for feature detection, and if they’re more complete tests than what we have up-to-date then it’s not just checking to see if the feature’s there but really works, then that can be really useful. So, again, I don’t see any reason why they wouldn’t follow through and, as they’ve said, open source it and donate the tests, but I’m a little mildly baffled as to why they would come out and announce it if it hasn’t already been open sourced, but we’ll wait and see.

Louis：是的，实际的视觉效果就是您可以在浏览器上直接进入浏览器，它告诉您浏览器支持的一切都很好，并且能够很好地工作，这也可能有助于浏览器制造商和移动设备制造商测试他们的产品。设备，我不是那个意思-我们不确定这是否是他们实际使用的东西，但是如果他们这样做，那么它可能会很强大，对，因为它是一个漂亮的绿色圆圈，并且您希望新手机上有很多绿色圆圈，对。 因此，如果它能将浏览器制造商推向正确的方向，那就太好了，但除此之外，如果您可以提取测试库的小部分并在代码中使用它们，专门用于功能检测，以及它们是否更完整，比我们最新的功能进行测试，这不仅是检查该功能是否存在，而且还可以正常工作，那可能会非常有用。 因此，我再也看不出他们为什么不遵循任何理由，并且如他们所说，将其开源并捐赠测试，但是我对他们为什么会出来并对此感到有些困惑。宣布它是否尚未开源，但我们将拭目以待。

Stephan: It looks cool.

史蒂芬：看起来很酷。

Patrick: Yeah, I was just reading a story before the show about Facebook and mobile, their developer blog reported that they have 425 million monthly mobile users, and the platform sends more than 60 million visitors every month to apps and games which generate more than 320 millions visits. So, pretty big numbers, and about 16% I believe was the percentage of visitors to mobile are going to apps, sorry, 14% are going to apps, so that’s a lot of traffic to apps, and I can see why people are developing mobile apps and why they felt the need to put this tool out, I’m sure it encourages their ecosystem.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我只是在展览前阅读了有关Facebook和移动设备的故事，他们的开发者博客报告说他们每月有4.25亿移动用户，该平台每月向超过6000万访问者访问应用程序和游戏，产生的访问量超过3.2亿次访问。 因此，相当大的数字，我相信大约有16％的移动访问者访问应用程序，而遗憾的是，有14％的用户访问应用程序，因此应用程序的访问量很大，我可以看到人们为什么在开发移动应用程序以及他们为什么需要发布此工具的原因，我相信它会鼓励他们的生态系统。

Louis: I guess if Facebook is seeing a huge growth in mobile use they want to make it possible for developers to jump in and plugin to Facebook.

路易斯：我想Facebook是否希望看到移动应用的巨大增长，他们希望使开发人员能够加入并插入Facebook。

Patrick: And do it right, of course.

帕特里克：当然，做对了。

Louis: Yeah, unlike those passive read-share apps. (Laughter)

路易斯：是的，与那些被动式阅读共享应用程序不同。 (笑声)

Patrick: The competition is crazy in this space.

帕特里克：在这个领域，竞争是疯狂的。

Louis: Yeah, I wonder how many of those app visits were actually deliberate or just people clicking on a link in Facebook thinking they were going somewhere and it asked them to install an app.

路易斯：是的，我想知道实际上有多少次应用访问是故意的，或者只是人们单击Facebook中的链接以为他们要去某个地方并要求他们安装应用。

Patrick: I don’t know, how many visits have there been to the SitePoint app? (Laughter) Oh!

帕特里克：我不知道SitePoint应用访问过多少次？ (笑声)哦！

Louis: Oh! Snap. No, we don’t have an app, see that’s it, we link to our content.

路易斯：哦！ 快点 不，我们没有应用，就是这样，我们链接到我们的内容。

Patrick: I know.

帕特里克：我知道。

Louis: We do Internet correctly.

路易斯：我们正确地建立了互联网。

Patrick: Sorry. Well done, SitePoint, well done. So I picked up on SitePoint.com on Craig Buckler’s story, Microsoft Rebuilds a New Windows 8 Logo, and as he says, he says, “I wouldn’t normally write an article about it, but this is the first major redesign in 22 years, and since most of us use Windows everyday that’s a fairly big deal.” So, Windows 8 logo, it is kind of a bright blue, a window-like icon and then the word Windows followed by 8, of course; have you guys seen this logo, what do you think, too simple?

帕特里克：对不起。 做得好，SitePoint，做得好。 因此，我在Craig Buckler的故事中从SitePoint.com上获得了经验 ，微软重建了新的Windows 8徽标，正如他所说，他说：“我通常不会写任何文章，但这是22年来的首次重大重新设计。多年以来，由于我们大多数人每天都使用Windows，所以这是一笔不小的数目。” 因此，Windows 8徽标是明亮的蓝色，类似于窗口的图标，然后是Windows以及8。 你们看到过这个徽标吗，您觉得呢，太简单了？

Stephan: This may be the worst logo I’ve ever seen (laughter).

史蒂芬：这可能是我见过的最糟糕的徽标(笑声)。

Patrick: Oh, come on, that’s not fair!

帕特里克：哦，拜托，这不公平！

Stephan: It’s terrible, this is terrible, I mean it’s — it’s bad. And they tried, like they made the window at an angle so that the one side is bigger than the other.

史蒂芬：太可怕了，这太可怕了，我的意思是，这很糟糕。 然后他们尝试着，就像使窗户倾斜一样，使一侧比另一侧大。

Louis: Yeah, but the angle is pointing away from the logo.

路易斯：是的，但是角度是指向徽标的。

Stephan: Yeah, it’s odd. It’s just odd. I don’t even know what to say (laughs).

斯蒂芬：是的，很奇怪。 这很奇怪。 我什至不知道该怎么说(笑)。

Patrick: Right, okay, so they wrote a blog post about this on the Windows Team blog, and I’ll just give you a quick summary of what the logo represents to them. First of all they wanted the new logo to be both modern and classy by echoing the international typography style or Swiss design that has been a great influence on our metro style design philosophy, which means using bold flat colors, clean lines and shapes. Number two, it was important that then new logo carried their metro principle of being authentically digital, by that they mean that it doesn’t have to emulate Faux industry — Faux industry design characteristics such as material, glass, wood, plastic, etcetera, it has motion, and these are their words, not that they make sense to me (laughter). And the third point is that the goal is for the logo to be humble yet confident. So, that’s kind of the vision for the logo, and you know, it’s —

帕特里克(Patrick)：好的，好的，所以他们在Windows Team Blog上写了一篇有关此的博客文章，我将为您简要介绍徽标对他们的含义。 首先，他们希望新徽标既现代又优雅，以呼应国际版式风格或瑞士设计，这对我们的地铁风格设计理念产生了重大影响，这意味着使用大胆的纯色，简洁的线条和形状。 第二，重要的是，新徽标应遵循其真实数字化的都市原则，因为它们意味着它不必模仿仿制品行业-仿制品行业的设计特征，例如材料，玻璃，木材，塑料等，它有动作，这是他们的话，并不是说它们对我有意义(笑声)。 第三点是目标是使徽标谦虚而又自信。 因此，这是徽标的愿景，而且，

Louis: Man, it’s just the spacing is weird.

路易斯：伙计，只是间隔很奇怪。

Patrick: It’s there, you know, it’s just there.

帕特里克：就在那儿，就在那儿。

Louis: Yeah, I don’t — it doesn’t even look like a logo, really, it just kind of looks like some text and a picture of something that might be a window.

路易斯：是的，我不知道，它甚至看起来都不像徽标，实际上，它看起来像是一些文字和可能是窗户的图片。

Patrick: Yeah, you know, it looks like for it to be a logo it would have to be from like the 1800’s, like the New York Times logo which is just like text, it doesn’t really look like a logo that you’d expect to see brand new, but, I don’t know, I don’t know, yeah, it will seem strange, like imagine the window start screen coming on.

帕特里克：是的，您知道，它看起来像是一个标志，必须像1800年代那样，就像《纽约时报》的标志一样，就像文字一样，它看起来并不像您真正的标志。 d希望看到全新的设备，但是，我不知道，我不知道，是的，这看起来很奇怪，就像想象窗口启动屏幕即将出现一样。

Stephan: This reminds me of AOL.

史蒂芬：这让我想起了美国在线。

Patrick: AOL, yeah, you know that’s a point, or GAP, I suppose.

帕特里克：美国在线，是的，我想这就是重点。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Patrick: You know, very simple.

帕特里克：您知道，非常简单。

Louis: Wasn’t it AOL that did that thing where there logo was just negative space and superimposed on different images.

路易斯：是不是美国在线(AOL)做的事情是徽标只是负数空间，并叠加在不同的图像上。

Stephan: Exactly.

史蒂芬：是的 。

Louis: Oh, yeah.

路易斯：哦，是的。

Stephan: (Laughs)

斯蒂芬：(笑)

Patrick: AOL, big A, small o, small l, and I think a period, yeah, that’s what it is, and they have it on the homepage now, it’s a leaf, it’s over a leaf on AOL.com right now.

帕特里克： AOL，大A，小O，小L，是的，是的，现在是这样，他们现在在主页上，它是一片叶子，现在在AOL.com上一片叶子。

Louis: I’m seeing a cityscape, so maybe it’s random on refresh.

路易斯：我正在看城市景观，所以也许它是随机的。

Patrick: It could be.

帕特里克：可能是。

Louis: Yeah, it is, I got a dove when I refreshed, you see I actually kind of like that, I like this better than the Windows 8 logo.

路易斯：是的，当我刷新时，我得到了一只鸽子，您会看到我实际上是那样的，我比Windows 8徽标更喜欢它。

Patrick: All it is is negative space.

帕特里克：唯一的就是负空间。

Stephan: Let’s think about this, I don’t know have you guys seen that video with the little kid, the little girl going through the logos as they go on the screen, have you seen this?

史蒂芬：让我们考虑一下，我不知道你们有没有和小孩子一起看过那个视频，小女孩在屏幕上浏览徽标，您看到了吗？

Louis: Yeah, yeah, yeah, somebody posted this, a designer had his daughter sort of say the first thing she thought of when she was seeing all these different —

路易斯：是的，是的，有人张贴了这篇文章，一位设计师让女儿在看到所有这些不同之处时说出了她想到的第一件事-

Stephan: Yeah, and the first thing I wonder is what is she going to say when she sees this that looks like the flag of Finland (laughter), it’s just opposite colors.

斯蒂芬：是的，我想知道的第一件事是，当她看到这面像芬兰国旗(笑声)的东西时，要说的是相反的颜色。

Louis: I think you’re giving this five-year-old far more extensive geography knowledge than is average.

路易斯：我想您正在为这个拥有5年历史的人提供比平均水平更广泛的地理知识。

Stephan: Probably.

史蒂芬：可能吧。

Patrick: Or even me far more extensive geography knowledge.

帕特里克(Patrick)：甚至我还有更广泛的地理知识。

Stephan: Well, it’s the colors reversed, so, yeah.

斯蒂芬：嗯，是颜色反转了，是的。

Louis: Yeah, it’s the opposite of Finland. That should be the slogan: Windows 8, it’s the opposite of Finland (laughter).

路易斯：是的，这与芬兰相反。 那应该是口号：Windows 8，与芬兰相反(笑)。

Patrick: Or everything that Finland isn’t.

帕特里克：或者芬兰没有的一切。

Stephan: Ohhh, yeah, it’s bad. Makes me not want to buy Windows.

斯蒂芬：哦，是的，这很糟糕。 让我不想购买Windows。

Patrick: They should launch it in Helsinki.

帕特里克：他们应该在赫尔辛基启动它。

Louis: Well, I mean it’s kind of the end of an era; if you scroll down Craig Buckler’s article he’s posted all the previous Windows’ logos, and it really is since Windows 3 that there has been this kind of four-colored, wavy window that’s really become iconic and that’s held out through the years, and this is the first time that that’s going away.

路易斯：嗯，我的意思是这已经到了时代的终结。 如果您向下滚动Craig Buckler的文章，他会发布所有以前的Windows徽标，而实际上是自Windows 3以来，这种四色，波浪形的窗口才真正变得具有标志性，并且多年来一直存在。这是第一次消失。

Patrick: Yeah, and he also included the Windows 1.0 logo which is in the Microsoft blog post also, they have like a more complete list of logos, but they mention that it was, uh, they found it refreshing and inspiring as they were doing their work, and you can kind of see the resemblance, in a way at least; some might argue that the Windows 1.0 logo had a little more to it.

帕特里克：是的，他还在Microsoft博客文章中也包含了Windows 1.0徽标，他们拥有更完整的徽标列表，但是他们提到它，嗯，他们发现它们像在做的一样令人耳目一新their work, and you can kind of see the resemblance, in a way at least; some might argue that the Windows 1.0 logo had a little more to it.

Louis: Yeah, the Windows, it actually had some use of typography in the way that Microsoft is offset from Windows, whereas this new one just the spacing kills me, it doesn’t seem unified, it seems like it’s three separate things; there’s a window, the word Windows, and an 8, and they’re not like — they don’t feel linked at all to me.

Louis: Yeah, the Windows, it actually had some use of typography in the way that Microsoft is offset from Windows, whereas this new one just the spacing kills me, it doesn't seem unified, it seems like it's three separate things; there's a window, the word Windows, and an 8, and they're not like — they don't feel linked at all to me.

Patrick: Yeah, and it probably doesn’t help —

Patrick: Yeah, and it probably doesn't help —

Stephan: They’re missing a registered trademark sign, that’s what they’re missing.

Stephan: They're missing a registered trademark sign, that's what they're missing.

Louis: No, it’s there.

Louis: No, it's there.

Stephan: No, no, they’re missing it by the 8, though; you see what I’m saying? (Laughter)

Stephan: No, no, they're missing it by the 8, though; you see what I'm saying? (笑声)

Louis: I wonder if they would be able to get away with trademarking the letter 8 in that typeface (laughter), probably not so much. Look, obviously if anyone on the Microsoft team who was involved in designing this is listening to us right now, well, they’re not listening anymore.

Louis: I wonder if they would be able to get away with trademarking the letter 8 in that typeface (laughter), probably not so much. Look, obviously if anyone on the Microsoft team who was involved in designing this is listening to us right now, well, they're not listening anymore.

Stephan: We’re sorry.

Stephan: We're sorry.

Louis: It’s probably too little too late.

Louis: It's probably too little too late.

Patrick: It’s easy — if they are listening it’s easy to be snarky.

Patrick: It's easy — if they are listening it's easy to be snarky.

Louis: They’ve seen chucked their iPod out the window, oh, sorry, their Zune; that was a totally unnecessary last minute thought.

Louis: They've seen chucked their iPod out the window, oh, sorry, their Zune; that was a totally unnecessary last minute thought.

Patrick: You didn’t even get a complimentary laugh for that. What do you want for that, do you want like a slow clap or something (clap slowly).

Patrick: You didn't even get a complimentary laugh for that. What do you want for that, do you want like a slow clap or something (clap slowly).

Louis: Yeah, alright, well yeah, look, it’s a logo. I mean I do kind of look forward to the new Windows, I do use Windows on occasion, I don’t use it at work or for any kind of development, but I do have a home machine that use mostly for gaming and casual use that’s a Windows machine, so I do look forward to Windows 8, I’m excited to see what it comes out with, but maybe not so much the logo. Anyway, do you guys want to talk about some spotlights?

Louis: Yeah, alright, well yeah, look, it's a logo. I mean I do kind of look forward to the new Windows, I do use Windows on occasion, I don't use it at work or for any kind of development, but I do have a home machine that use mostly for gaming and casual use that's a Windows machine, so I do look forward to Windows 8, I'm excited to see what it comes out with, but maybe not so much the logo. Anyway, do you guys want to talk about some spotlights?

Stephan: Let’s do it.

史蒂芬：开始吧。

Patrick: Yeah, let’s hit it. I’ll go first with my spotlight, it is a Kickstarter campaign for a show with Ze Frank, Ze Frank, the video web show godfather that he is, launched The Show with Ze Frank in 2006, and he wants to bring it back, and he’s got a Kickstarter campaign going for it.

Patrick: Yeah, let's hit it. I'll go first with my spotlight, it is a Kickstarter campaign for a show with Ze Frank, Ze Frank, the video web show godfather that he is, launched The Show with Ze Frank in 2006, and he wants to bring it back, and he's got a Kickstarter campaign going for it.

Louis: So is this really a return of the show?

Louis: So is this really a return of the show?

Patrick: It’s a big deal. Like I said on Twitter, the ruler is back.

Patrick: It's a big deal. Like I said on Twitter, the ruler is back.

Louis: (Laughs)

路易斯：(笑)

Patrick: It’s slick Ze.

Patrick: It's slick Ze.

Louis: I’ve got that snare drumroll stuck in my head.

Louis: I've got that snare drumroll stuck in my head.

Patrick: (Laughs) but, yeah, that’s what it says, there’s a Kickstarter campaign, like I said, and it says on it that “In 2006 I launched a show called The Show with Ze Frank, it was one of the most strange, exciting, difficult and amazing things I have done so far. I think it is time to do something similar what with the economy in the crapper and the election coming up, if Newt can do it, so can I, so can we, same but different.” So, some similarity, obviously some differences, he says it’ll be — from the campaign here it sounds like it’ll be a pretty similar format, and he’s got a number of backers; I watched the Kickstarter campaign jump up just in front of my eyes. When I first saw it, it was 5,000, about five minutes later it was 10,000, let me refresh it, my current — when I’m looking at it right now it says 19,008, I opened that probably 15 minutes before we started the show, so about an hour ago, it’s at 24,781 now, so money and backers are pouring in, and I have little doubt that it’ll rich that 50,000 goal soon and we’ll see the show return.

Patrick: (Laughs) but, yeah, that's what it says, there's a Kickstarter campaign, like I said, and it says on it that “In 2006 I launched a show called The Show with Ze Frank, it was one of the most strange, exciting, difficult and amazing things I have done so far. I think it is time to do something similar what with the economy in the crapper and the election coming up, if Newt can do it, so can I, so can we, same but different.” So, some similarity, obviously some differences, he says it'll be — from the campaign here it sounds like it'll be a pretty similar format, and he's got a number of backers; I watched the Kickstarter campaign jump up just in front of my eyes. When I first saw it, it was 5,000, about five minutes later it was 10,000, let me refresh it, my current — when I'm looking at it right now it says 19,008, I opened that probably 15 minutes before we started the show, so about an hour ago, it's at 24,781 now, so money and backers are pouring in, and I have little doubt that it'll rich that 50,000 goal soon and we'll see the show return.

Louis: That’s very exciting. That’s the best news I’ve heard all month.

Louis: That's very exciting. That's the best news I've heard all month.

Stephan: It’s awesome.

Stephan: It's awesome.

Patrick: I deliver again (laughter). With a different beat, different snare.

Patrick: I deliver again (laughter). With a different beat, different snare.

Louis: I’m going to deliver a far more down tempo spotlight this week, something I saw on Hacker News this morning, which is a full stack web framework built on top of node.js, it is called tower.js and its homepage lives at towerjs.org. And, yeah, so it’s a combination of Node for serving the backend, MongoDB for the database, it’s written using CoffeeScript, which if anyone is familiar with is just sort of like this pre-processed JavaScript language that gets turned into JavaScript but that’s a lot prettier and easier to write than JavaScript. So, yeah, and it seems like this is sort of maybe one of the first indications of Node having gone beyond this very, very low-level hackery where you can maybe write a socket-based chat client in a couple of lines, but you wouldn’t want to build a whole website into it, to something that you can really develop on top of. Obviously it’s a fairly new project, but if you’re looking at starting up a new MVC back to web application and you were curious about Node or CoffeeScript or trying to do JavaScript on the server, yeah, it looks like it’s pretty full-featured, it’s got models, it’s got controllers, and it ties in nicely to the view; I get the impression that it can probably do some clever things with interacting with layouts because the layouts are also using JavaScripts, so there’s maybe a bit more potential for code reuse than what you’d get in a typical application.

Louis: I'm going to deliver a far more down tempo spotlight this week, something I saw on Hacker News this morning, which is a full stack web framework built on top of node.js, it is called tower.js and its homepage lives at towerjs.org . And, yeah, so it's a combination of Node for serving the backend, MongoDB for the database, it's written using CoffeeScript, which if anyone is familiar with is just sort of like this pre-processed JavaScript language that gets turned into JavaScript but that's a lot prettier and easier to write than JavaScript. So, yeah, and it seems like this is sort of maybe one of the first indications of Node having gone beyond this very, very low-level hackery where you can maybe write a socket-based chat client in a couple of lines, but you wouldn't want to build a whole website into it, to something that you can really develop on top of. Obviously it's a fairly new project, but if you're looking at starting up a new MVC back to web application and you were curious about Node or CoffeeScript or trying to do JavaScript on the server, yeah, it looks like it's pretty full-featured, it's got models, it's got controllers, and it ties in nicely to the view; I get the impression that it can probably do some clever things with interacting with layouts because the layouts are also using JavaScripts, so there's maybe a bit more potential for code reuse than what you'd get in a typical application.

Stephan: Cool, looks neat.

Stephan: Cool, looks neat.

Louis: I haven’t had a chance to play with it at all because obviously I just saw it this morning, but it’s potentially exciting and good to see Node progressing to the point where there are really big application frameworks written on top of it which might let people get into it without having to write everything themselves.

Louis: I haven't had a chance to play with it at all because obviously I just saw it this morning, but it's potentially exciting and good to see Node progressing to the point where there are really big application frameworks written on top of it which might let people get into it without having to write everything themselves.

Stephan: Cool. I’ll go last. So I have something called opengeocoder.net, and it is from the guy who brought us openstreetmap.org, and basically it’s a — it allows you to search for a place and if it’s there, fine, if it’s not then you can add it, and they also have a JSON API so that you can get geo-coded location information from their API, so it’s all open source, all your search queries go into the public domain. So, it’s pretty neat, I’m a big fan of GIS and map data, I think it’s really —

史蒂芬：酷。 I'll go last. So I have something called opengeocoder.net , and it is from the guy who brought us openstreetmap.org , and basically it's a — it allows you to search for a place and if it's there, fine, if it's not then you can add it, and they also have a JSON API so that you can get geo-coded location information from their API, so it's all open source, all your search queries go into the public domain. So, it's pretty neat, I'm a big fan of GIS and map data, I think it's really —

Louis: Does it do reverse geo-coding, can you throw coordinates at it and get the name of a place.

Louis: Does it do reverse geo-coding, can you throw coordinates at it and get the name of a place.

Stephan: I have not played with it enough to know, but I think that’s what the point of it is, so if you have some lat-longs I would type them in and we could find out.

Stephan: I have not played with it enough to know, but I think that's what the point of it is, so if you have some lat-longs I would type them in and we could find out.

Patrick: I entered my city and it’s not there.

Patrick: I entered my city and it's not there.

Stephan: You gotta add it, that’s the point (laughter).

Stephan: You gotta add it, that's the point (laughter).

Patrick: But I’m not a programmer. I’m just kidding. I’ll have to add it then.

Patrick: But I'm not a programmer. 我只是在开玩笑。 I'll have to add it then.

Stephan: It’s just a neat way, you know, because it’s hard to get geo-coded data quickly and cheaply, sometimes you have to buy libraries or you have to pay-per-use for the Google API or something, so I just think it’s neat, I hope it takes off, I hope they’re putting more work into Open Street Map, it’s a cool thing as well.

Stephan: It's just a neat way, you know, because it's hard to get geo-coded data quickly and cheaply, sometimes you have to buy libraries or you have to pay-per-use for the Google API or something, so I just think it's neat, I hope it takes off, I hope they're putting more work into Open Street Map, it's a cool thing as well.

Patrick: So this data, this lat-long city —

Patrick: So this data, this lat-long city —

Louis: I’m just sort of figuring it out, so it’s got this box that you can drag around, so if you do a search that isn’t there it gives you a rectangle that you can drag around to mark what the boundaries of the place that you’re describing are so you could theoretically use descriptors for any neighborhood or even smaller areas than that.

Louis: I'm just sort of figuring it out, so it's got this box that you can drag around, so if you do a search that isn't there it gives you a rectangle that you can drag around to mark what the boundaries of the place that you're describing are so you could theoretically use descriptors for any neighborhood or even smaller areas than that.

Stephan: Exactly. So, what’s missing right now is a lot of street names, there are some neighborhoods that are missing, there’s cities apparently that are missing, so I see it could be a really cool tool in a year or so after people have added a lot of data.

史蒂芬：是的 。 So, what's missing right now is a lot of street names, there are some neighborhoods that are missing, there's cities apparently that are missing, so I see it could be a really cool tool in a year or so after people have added a lot of data.

Louis: Yeah, definitely.

Louis: Yeah, definitely.

Patrick: Where Louis is right now, enter (laughter). No direct match, click here to add it. How can I add it if I don’t know it! Sorry.

Patrick: Where Louis is right now, enter (laughter). No direct match, click here to add it. How can I add it if I don't know it! 抱歉。

Louis: Let’s see, we do we got, Collingwood, Victoria.

Louis: Let's see, we do we got, Collingwood, Victoria.

Patrick: I have to enter Harbinger, North Carolina.

Patrick: I have to enter Harbinger, North Carolina.

Louis: Are you from a place called Harbinger?

Louis: Are you from a place called Harbinger?

Patrick: Harbinger, yeah, it’s actually Harbinger, not Har-binger, but it’s spelled like, you know, of doom.

Patrick: Harbinger, yeah, it's actually Harbinger, not Har-binger, but it's spelled like, you know, of doom.

Louis: Ha, ha, ha, wicked.

Louis: Ha, ha, ha, wicked.

Patrick: Which explains my generally sunny disposition.

Patrick: Which explains my generally sunny disposition.

Louis: That joke would make sense if it was ironic, but you’re not a pessimist so it doesn’t really.

Louis: That joke would make sense if it was ironic, but you're not a pessimist so it doesn't really.

Patrick: Oh.

Patrick: Oh.

Louis: Alright, let’s wrap it up.

Louis: Alright, let's wrap it up.

Patrick: I am Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network; I blog at managingcommunities.com, on Twitter @ifroggy, i-f-r-o-g-g-y.

Patrick: I am Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network; I blog at managingcommunities.com , on Twitter @ifroggy , ifroggy.

Stephan: I’m Stephan Segraves, I tweet @ssegraves and I blog at badice.com.

Stephan: I'm Stephan Segraves, I tweet @ssegraves and I blog at badice.com .

Louis: And you can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom, that’s sitepoint d-o-t-c-o-m; you can find us on the Web at SitePoint.com/podcast, and you can email us at podcast@sitepoint.com; you can find me on Twitter @rssaddict. That’s all for this week, thanks for listening.

Louis: And you can follow SitePoint on Twitter @sitepointdotcom , that's sitepoint dotcom; you can find us on the Web at SitePoint.com/podcast , and you can email us at podcast@sitepoint.com; you can find me on Twitter @rssaddict . That's all for this week, thanks for listening.

Theme music by Mike Mella.

Mike Mella的主题音乐。

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