@ifroggy) and Stephan Segraves (@ifroggy )和Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves).@ssegraves )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #167: Fireside Chat (MP3, 26:32, 25.5MB)

  SitePoint播客＃167：炉边聊天 (MP3，26:32，25.5MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

The panel discuss topics such as the statistic that around 50% of popular websites link to Facebook, an online retailer introduces an Internet Explorer 7 tax and more.

该小组讨论的话题包括诸如统计数据，约50％的流行网站链接到Facebook，在线零售商介绍了Internet Explorer 7税等等。

Here are the main topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主要主题：

• How many sites have Facebook integration? You’d be surprised. via Report: Over 24% Of The Web’s Top 10,000 Sites Now Use Facebook’s Official Widgets | TechCrunch

  有多少个网站与Facebook集成？ 您会感到惊讶。 通过报告：互联网上前10,000个站点中有超过24％现在使用Facebook的官方小部件| TechCrunch

• SitePoint’s New Logo — and the Story Behind It – SitePoint along with Web Archive of SitePoint.com

  SitePoint的新徽标及其背后的故事– SitePoint以及SitePoint.com的Web存档

• Retailer’s Tax on IE 7 Users Opens New Front in Browser Wars

  IE 7用户的零售商税在浏览器大战中开启了新的战线

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/167.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/167中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

• Stephan 1: Business – Derek Thompson – Forget Edison: This Is How History’s Greatest Inventions Really Happened – The Atlantic

  斯蒂芬1： 商业–德里克·汤普森–忘掉爱迪生：这就是历史上最伟大的发明真正发生的方式–大西洋

• Stephan 2: TriggerTrap Mobile App

  Stephan 2： TriggerTrap移动应用

• Patrick: Two and the Zoo – The Adventures of April, Brad, and the Ridiculous Zoo with Professional WordPress Second Edition is Coming!

  帕特里克： 两个动物园-四月冒险，布拉德和带专业WordPress第二版 的可笑动物园 即将到来！

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Patrick: Hello, and welcome to the SitePoint Podcast. For another group show, or is it a group show? Joining me today is only one person, Stephan Segraves. Hey Stephan. How’s it going?

帕特里克：您好，欢迎来到SitePoint播客。 要参加另一个集体表演，还是一个集体表演？ 今天只有我一个人，Stephan Segraves。 嗨，斯蒂芬。 怎么样了？

Stephan: It’s going alright Patrick. How are you?

斯蒂芬：没事，帕特里克。 你好吗？

Patrick: It’s going good, going good. I had some fun time with my family this past week.

帕特里克：进展顺利，进展顺利。 过去一周，我与家人度过了愉快的时光。

Stephan: Good.

斯蒂芬：好。

Patrick: Yeah, I mean, I was thinking, I think this is what they call the Core Two show. Only baseball fans and maybe Yankee fans would be familiar with the term Core Four, which was kind of a nickname given to Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, and Mariano Rivera, who were players that were on the Yankees at the same time. Each won championships, and stayed with the team for a long time. Stephan and I are the remaining two members form the initial podcast hosting lineup and also the only remaining members from the Dot Net Magazine award-winning podcast theater team. So, this is the Core Two show.

帕特里克：是的，我是说，我在想，我认为这就是他们所说的核心二秀。 只有棒球迷和也许洋基球迷会熟悉“核心四人”一词，这是昵称给同时在洋基队任职的德里克·杰特，安迪·佩蒂特，豪尔赫·波萨达和马里亚诺·里维拉的绰号。 每个人都赢得了冠军，并在车队呆了很长时间。 斯蒂芬和我是最初播客主持阵容中剩下的两名成员，也是《点网》杂志获奖播客剧院团队中仅有的其余成员。 所以，这是核心二秀。

Stephan: I wouldn’t put us on the same level as the Yankees though.

史蒂芬：我不会把我们和洋基队放在一起。

Patrick: Sure, well, you know, there were some luminaries nominated that year such as Jeffery Zeldman, so that was a big win.

帕特里克(Patrick)：当然，你知道，那年有一些名人提名，例如杰弗里·扎德曼(Jeffery Zeldman)，这是一个巨大的胜利。

Stephan: Yeah, it was good.

斯蒂芬：是的，很好。

Patrick: You know, and if we only have two of us then it’s just a more intimate chat. It’s like you and I and the listener at the fireplace, right?

帕特里克：您知道，如果我们只有两个人，那只是一次更加亲密的聊天。 就像你我和壁炉旁的听众一样，对吗？

Stephan: Fireside chat.

史蒂芬：炉边聊天。

Patrick: Yeah, it’s just a fireside chat, us three just talking about a few news items. So that’s what we’re going to do today. So the first story that we’re going to tackle today is from Pingdom, it’s pingdom.com, and they have done a study of the top 1000 websites in the world, to measure the presence on those sites of Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and LinkedIn, specifically how many of those sites use the official widgets provided by those services and how many just link and combine those numbers. They found that 24.3% of the top 10,000 websites in the world have some form of official Facebook integration on their homepage. That means some sort of widget script that Facebook provides on their website for webmaster, website owners, etc. to use, and links to the site, including those widgets, 49.3% have a link from Facebook on their homepage, whether it be a link or a widget. Meanwhile, Twitter comes in at 41.7%, Google+ at 21.5% and LinkedIn at 3.9%. You know, when I first saw these numbers my initial thought was “Wow, Google+ has made a lot of headway”.

帕特里克：是的，这只是炉边聊天，我们三个人只是在谈论一些新闻。 这就是我们今天要做的。 因此，我们今天要解决的第一个故事是来自Pingdom，它是pingdom.com，他们对全球前1000个网站进行了研究，以评估Facebook，Twitter，Google +和LinkedIn，特别是其中有多少网站使用这些服务提供的官方窗口小部件，还有多少只是链接并组合这些数字。 他们发现，全球前10,000个网站中有24.3％的主页上有某种形式的官方Facebook集成。 这意味着Facebook在其网站上提供了一些小部件脚本，供网站管理员，网站所有者等使用，以及指向该网站的链接(包括这些小部件)，有49.3％的人在其主页上都有来自Facebook的链接，无论该链接是或小部件。 同时，Twitter占41.7％，Google +占21.5％，LinkedIn占3.9％。 您知道吗，当我第一次看到这些数字时，我最初的想法是“哇，Google +取得了很大进展”。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Patrick: You know, I think people might bash them maybe a little bit, and I’ve seen people refer to it as a ghost town, but I know I personally get a lot of good out of Google+ and this shows that, you know, these large websites are really embracing Google+.

帕特里克：您知道，我认为人们可能会对他们进行一些抨击，并且我已经看到人们将其称为“鬼城”，但是我知道我个人从Google+中获得了很多好处，这表明，您知道，这些大型网站确实采用了Google+。

Stephan: Yeah, I mean, even Pingdom. You look at the Pingdom page that this article is on and they’ve got the widget, both on the article site and for the page at the top, like for the entire site. It’s kind of overwhelming a little bit when you think about it, but it makes sense and I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t even really notice the buttons anymore. So it’s good to see numbers.

史蒂芬：是的，我的意思是，甚至Pingdom。 您可以查看本文所在的Pingdom页面，他们在文章站点和顶部页面(如整个站点)上都有小部件。 当您考虑它时，它有点让人不知所措，但这是有道理的，而且我已经到了我什至没有真正注意到按钮的地步。 因此，很高兴看到数字。

Patrick: Right, that’s a good point. You know, you’ve got Google+ at 21.5%, and then interestingly they do divide it by the, you know, that’s the overall number of all links from the homepage as the top 10,000, but all of the usage of the official widgets, they break that down. Like I said, Facebook’s 24.3%, but Google actually is at 13.3% ahead of Twitter at 10% and Google+’s widgets aren’t, I wouldn’t describe them as easy to find on the website, you know? And Twitter offers these different follow buttons and different strains that you can provide on your website, and obviously has been around longer than Google+, but as far as using these widgets, the official code provided by the service, Google+ is 3.3% ahead of Twitter on the top 10,000 websites. I found that surprising.

帕特里克：对，这是一个好点。 您知道Google+的比例为21.5％，然后有趣的是，他们的确将其除以首页上所有链接的总数(前10,000个)，但是所有官方小部件的使用情况，他们将其分解。 就像我说的那样，Facebook占24.3％，但是Google实际上比Twitter占10％的13.3％领先，而Google+的窗口小部件不是，我不会形容它们在网站上很容易找到，您知道吗？ Twitter提供了这些不同的跟随按钮和不同的压力，您可以在网站上提供它们，并且显然比Google+更长，但是就使用这些小部件(该服务提供的官方代码)而言，Google +比Twitter高3.3％在前10,000个网站上。 我感到惊讶。

Stephan: Do you think it’s partially because people like to use their own specific URL-shortener to share a link on Twitter? Like j.mp bit.ly type stuff and for Google+ they just use the Google short URL? Do you think that could be it, or at least part of it?

斯蒂芬：您认为这部分是因为人们喜欢使用自己的特定URL缩短器在Twitter上共享链接吗？ 就像j.mp bit.ly一样，对于Google+，他们只是使用Google短网址？ 您认为可能是这样，还是至少有一部分？

Patrick: Yeah, I think that might be part of it. I think it’s interesting to also consider, because I initially skipped over this myself is the thought that really any button can be the Twitter button. They can have the Tweet button that we know on blog posts, you can have the follow button I’m pretty sure from reading this post. So, yeah, it’s interesting that not more pages have that. But then again, maybe the top 10,000 websites in the world, there’s a lot of different kind of sites in there I would imagine. You know, there’s a lot of big businesses, a lot of Fortune 500’s that aren’t like a blog type homepage. They don’t have the news items with the share links right on their homepage perhaps. Maybe that’s why Twitter is maybe a little lacking in that area of the widgets specifically just because people are more likely to want to just share their presence on Twitter via just a simple link or a Twitter icon, a button, a graphic that they designed or they put in line with the other ones to make it look uniform and then linked directly to Twitter just by themselves manually.

帕特里克：是的，我认为这可能是其中的一部分。 我认为也很有趣，因为我本人最初跳过了这一点，认为实际上任何按钮都可以是Twitter按钮。 他们可以使用博客文章上的“ Tweet”按钮，也可以使用阅读本文中确定的“关注”按钮。 所以，是的，有趣的是没有更多的页面具有该功能。 但是话又说回来，也许是世界上排名前10,000的网站，我想在那里有很多不同类型的网站。 您知道，有很多大企业，很多《财富》 500强公司都没有博客类型的主页。 他们的主页上可能没有带有共享链接的新闻项目。 也许这就是为什么Twitter可能在微件的那个领域中有所欠缺，特别是因为人们更愿意通过简单的链接或Twitter图标，按钮，他们设计的图形或他们与其他人保持一致，使其看起来统一，然后直接手动链接到Twitter。

Stephan: Yeah, yeah. That’s kind of what I do, so I can see that being an option, being a preference for sites not wanting to use the integration as much. I can see that.

斯蒂芬：是的，是的。 这就是我的工作方式，因此我可以看到它是一种选择，是不希望使用该集成的网站的首选。 我理解了。

Patrick: Yeah, I think about this on my own sites and I guess I probably have 100% saturation for these services and the official widgets, but yeah. I mean if the variety of buttons and options, and I guess just how you use it, I guess that all would come in to effect. The “like” button obviously is very popular and they found that 7.3% of the top 10,000 have the official like button on their site. One other thing I thought was worth talking about was LinkedIn. I mean, if you’re LinkedIn and you’re at the bottom of this list, 0.6% of top 10,000 use your widget. 3.9% link to you or use a widget. Is that depressing to you? Is that just disappointing, or are you in a totally different market and don’t really care?

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我在自己的网站上考虑过，我想这些服务和官方小部件的饱和度可能是100％，但是是的。 我的意思是，如果按钮和选项多种多样，而且我猜您只是如何使用它，那么我想所有这些都会生效。 “喜欢”按钮显然很受欢迎，他们发现前10,000名用户中有7.3％的网站上有官方“喜欢”按钮。 我认为值得一提的另一件事是LinkedIn。 我的意思是，如果您是LinkedIn，并且在此列表的底部，则前10,000名用户中有0.6％使用小部件。 3.9％链接到您或使用小部件。 这让您感到沮丧吗？ 这只是令人失望，还是您在一个完全不同的市场中，是否真的不在乎？

Stephan: I think it’s one of those things you’re in a totally different market. Unless you’re linking from your resumé or your personal site that’s just about you and your business abilities, I don’t think it has any relevance really, especially after this week’s password fiasco.

斯蒂芬：我认为这是您在一个完全不同的市场中的事情之一。 除非您是从简历或个人网站链接的，而这与您和您的业务能力有关，否则我认为它并没有任何意义，尤其是在本周密码惨败之后。

Patrick: Right. It’s a good point because LinkedIn is sort of this more niche network for professional and even on my own sites I think of it that way as I only have LinkedIn on the blog about online community on my personal site, and that’s it as far as linking to LinkedIn. Because what do people care about LinkedIn if I’m writing about Bad Boy Records, or if they’re on my karate forums or something else? They just don’t. I’m not going to promote those sites on LinkedIn, because it just doesn’t make sense. On the next story I wanted to bring it home a little bit and talk about SitePoint’s new logo. Now, long term SitePoint designer Alex Walker wrote a detailed blog post on SitePoint.com explaining the process for changing SitePoint’s visual identity. They have a logo, they have a new one obviously now, but the one they had before that came out in early 2000, according to Alex, and now 10 years later they are looking for, you know, a bit of a facelift. Not being a designer myself I found it interesting to take a look at how an established brand like SitePoint which is pretty well staffed, it has a pretty good sized following online, and has been around for a long time, it’s an established brand with web developers, webmasters, and online businesspeople. And the steps that he took to kind of, and his team took, to go through all of these logo options and all of these design ideas, things that might be small to some people but really they are what make up the logo. Things like the position of the arrows, the spacing of the brackets in the SitePoint logo, how the negative space between the brackets could be used as a shape or if they should emphasize that or de- emphasize that. It’s just a long process.

帕特里克：对。 这是一个很好的观点，因为LinkedIn是一种更专业的利基网络，甚至在我自己的网站上，我也是这样认为的，因为我在个人网站上只有关于在线社区的Blog上有LinkedIn，就此而言，领英。 因为如果我写的是“坏男孩唱片”，或者他们在我的空手道论坛上或其他网站上，人们会对LinkedIn感到关注吗？ 他们只是没有。 我不会在LinkedIn上推广这些网站，因为这没有意义。 在下一个故事中，我想带一点回家，谈论一下SitePoint的新徽标。 现在，长期的SitePoint设计师Alex Walker在SitePoint.com上写了一篇详细的博客文章，解释了更改SitePoint视觉标识的过程。 他们有一个徽标，现在显然有一个新徽标，但是Alex认为，它们是在2000年初问世的。现在，十年后，他们正在寻找一些改头换面的标志。 我自己不是一名设计师，但我发现有趣的是，看看像SitePoint这样的知名品牌是如何配备人员的，它在网络上的规模相当大，并且已经存在了很长时间，这是一个网络知名品牌开发人员，网站管理员和在线商人。 以及他和他的团队采取的步骤，以遍历所有这些徽标选项和所有这些设计思路，这对于某些人来说可能很小，但实际上它们是徽标的组成部分。 诸如箭头的位置，SitePoint徽标中方括号的间距，方括号之间的负空格如何用作形状，或者它们是否应该强调或不强调那样的事情。 这是一个漫长的过程。

Stephan: Yeah, yeah, and it’s kind of cool to see how it’s progressed from the old arrow that was like a right-facing arrow. I went back to the way back machine.

斯蒂芬：是的，从旧的箭头向右看是如何发展的，这很酷。 我回到了机器的路上。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Stephan: And brought the old logo up and we’ve come from that to kind of the two arrows facing away from each other, and now this new incarnation is pretty cool and really interesting and I really like what they came up with for the new logo. Now they’ve just go to get the favicon updated.

史蒂芬(Stephan)：提出了旧徽标，我们由此而来，就是两个彼此相对的箭头，现在这种新的化身非常酷，而且非常有趣，我非常喜欢他们为新徽标想到的东西商标。 现在，他们只是去更新收藏夹图标。

Patrick: Right, and actually, you know what? It is updated on mine so maybe that’s a caché.

帕特里克：对，实际上，你知道吗？ 它是在我的上更新的，所以也许是个咖啡。

Stephan: That’s a cache. Yeah, it’s cache issue.

史蒂芬：那是一个缓存。 是的，这是缓存问题。

Patrick: Oh, a cache issue. Dang it, I’m gonna be made fun of again. So, yeah, I mean a lot of SitePoint visitors have been visiting the site for a long time and we are among those. You know, I was on staff, I’ve been on some sort of volunteer staff for SitePoint including the forums, the mentor adviser, and podcast host for, you know, over 10 years, and probably a member for 11 or 12 and I know you’re right there with me, perhaps even a little longer.

帕特里克：哦，缓存问题。 撞死了，我会再次被取笑。 所以，是的，我的意思是很多SitePoint访问者访问该网站已有很长时间了，我们就是其中之一。 您知道，我在工作人员中，我曾在SitePoint担任过各种志愿人员，包括论坛，导师顾问和播客主持人，这些人已有10年以上的经验，并且可能是11或12岁的成员，而我知道你就在我身边，甚至更长一点。

Stephan: Yeah, I can’t even remember back when I first started reading the forums. I know it was back when they were still on UBB, so it was a long time ago.

斯蒂芬：是的，我什至不记得我刚开始阅读论坛时的情况。 我知道他们还在UBB上时就回来了，所以很久以前。

Patrick: Yeah, I mean, and we, Stephan pulled up a link to archive.org as he mentioned, we’ll include this in the show notes as well, and it is for May 10th of 2000. SitePoint, I want to say it was originally webmasters-resources.com, if I’m remembering that correctly. It was something like that, then they changed to SitePoint. They also had four sites at once where they broke out to e-commerce based, webmaster based, promotion based, dot com. I don’t know the order of those occurrences, but even know they’ve kind of re-embraced that strategy to have these spin-off sites for design with Build Mobile and Design Festival and Ruby Source and Cloud Spring, PHP Master and so on, so that’s been interesting to see. But the logo that you pointed out is it’s an orange circle, it’s kind of a digital arrow with a tail pointed to the right, SitePoint.com and he said that was back in 2000. I don’t know if they went directly from this to the one that they’ve had for about 10 years, I mean, they’re around, it’s pretty close to it, and I thinks that’s what the article speaks to. Here, yeah. Alex says “The first SitePoint logo was created for the site launch in 2000” and the logo you probably know best, the one they’ve been using, was in 2002, so this is, I guess, the third SitePoint logo.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我的意思是，我们斯蒂芬(Stephan)提起了他提到的archive.org的链接，我们也将其包含在展览记录中，并且是在2000年5月10日。SitePoint，我想说如果我没记错的话，它最初是webmasters-resources.com。 就像这样，然后他们更改为SitePoint。 他们还同时拥有四个站点，在这些站点中出现了基于电子商务，基于网站管理员，基于促销的.com。 我不知道这些事件发生的顺序，但甚至知道他们已经重新采用了这种策略，以通过Build Mobile and Design Festival和Ruby Source and Cloud Spring，PHP Master等使这些衍生网站进行设计。继续，所以这很有趣。 但是您指出的徽标是一个橙色的圆圈，它是一种数字箭头，其尾巴指向右侧，SitePoint.com，他说那是2000年。我不知道他们是否直接从此对于他们已经有大约10年的经历，我的意思是，他们在身边，非常接近，我认为这就是本文的目的。 在这里，是的。 亚历克斯说：“第一个SitePoint徽标是为2000年的网站发布而创建的”，您可能最了解的徽标(他们一直在使用的徽标)是2002年，所以，我想这是第三个SitePoint徽标。

Stephan: Yeah, it’s kind of hard to believe that they’ve only gone through three logos as a web company.

斯蒂芬：是的，很难相信他们作为一家网络公司仅经历了三个徽标。

Patrick: Yeah.

帕特里克：是的。

Stephan: In 11 years.

斯蒂芬： 11年了。

Patrick: And there’s no rule book on this, as far as like when to change a logo or when it needs to be refreshed. I mean, I guess it’s a feeling. It’s something that comes from usually inside the company, maybe judging some sort of sentiment outside the company that a facelift is needed and you see it time and time again, and sometimes it goes really badly, like it did with the Gap.

帕特里克(Patrick)：关于何时更改徽标或何时需要刷新徽标，这方面没有规则书。 我的意思是，我想这是一种感觉。 这通常是公司内部产生的，也许是判断公司外部是否需要改头换面，然后您一次又一次地看到它，有时效果真的很差，就像使用Gap所做的那样。

Stephan: Yeah, but it’s great though. I think the story behind it all and the idea of trying to keep some sense of the old logo in the new logo so that you don’t scare people off, you know, I think it’s great and I love all that they give you, all the renditions, all of the though processes they went through and it’s great. I really like it. I find stuff like this fascinating, reading designer’s thoughts.

斯蒂芬：是的，但是很棒。 我认为这背后的故事以及试图在新徽标中保留旧徽标的含义的想法，这样您就不会吓到人们，您知道，我认为这很棒，而且我喜欢他们给您的一切，所有的演绎过程，他们经历的所有流程，都很棒。 我很喜欢。 我发现这样有趣的东西，阅读了设计师的想法。

Patrick: Yeah, I think even explaining it like this as Alex did is a way of helping people to embrace it, right? And you think SitePoint is a webcentric, web development, web designer community. So it’s a little different from The Gap, right? They’re introducing their new logo to web designers which can be more critical I would say, it could be more difficult, but it also can be easier if you open up the gates a little bit and explain, you know “This was our design process. This is what we went through. We went through five rounds or however many rounds it was of design”. He posted pictures of, like, they had the logos printed out, even an arrow was printed out so they could play with just the alignment of the arrows in the logo, and, yeah, I mean, it’s a really good thing to do on SitePoint. So, now, we’ve beat around the bush a bit, so what do you think of the new logo?

帕特里克：是的，我认为即使像亚历克斯一样这样解释，也是帮助人们拥抱它的一种方式，对吗？ 而且您认为SitePoint是一个以Web为中心的Web开发Web设计者社区。 所以它与The Gap有点不同，对吧？ 他们正在向网页设计师介绍他们的新徽标，这可能会更关键，这可能会更困难，但是如果您稍稍打开大门并解释一下，您就会知道，“这就是我们的设计处理。 这就是我们经历的。 我们经历了五轮甚至是设计的许多轮。” 他张贴了印有徽标的图片，甚至印出了箭头，这样它们就可以与徽标中的箭头对齐来播放，是的，我的意思是，这样做确实很不错SitePoint。 所以，现在，我们有点挣扎了，那么您如何看待新徽标？

Stephan: I like it. I kinda don’t, I’m not really much a fan of the drop shadow, but that’s just a personal thing that’s in the arrow, but overall I like it. It still feels like SitePoint to me, which is the most important thing, right?

史蒂芬：我喜欢。 我有点不喜欢，我不是很喜欢投影，但这只是箭头所指的个人事物，但总的来说，我喜欢它。 在我看来仍然像SitePoint，这是最重要的，对吧？

Patrick: Yeah, I mean, I’d agree with that. It’s a good update, like a refresh, which is a word I keep using, of their existing logo. So you go there, you see the placement of the arrows, it’s different, but the arrows are still there so you still make that connection, and I think it’s just a nice, clean, logo, so, then, you know, I’ve joked about SitePoint on here before. I’m not necessarily, even though this is the SitePoint podcast we don’t necessarily have to say all good things, but this is a nice logo. I like the direction of it, and congratulations to Alex and team on getting it done.

帕特里克：是的，我是说，我同意。 这是对他们现有徽标的很好的更新，例如刷新，我一直使用这个词。 所以您去那里，看到箭头的位置，不同，但是箭头仍然存在，因此您仍可以建立连接，而且我认为它只是一个不错的，干净的徽标，所以，那么，我知道我以前在这里开玩笑说过SitePoint。 我不一定，即使这是SitePoint播客，我们也不一定要说所有好话，但这是一个不错的徽标。 我喜欢它的方向，并祝贺亚历克斯和团队完成了它。

Stephan: Yeah, I think it’s interesting too, I should point out that the font that they went with is a nice font, and they went with a different color. That’s one thing that’s really subtly different. It’s black, or gray, and not the blue.

史蒂芬：是的，我也觉得很有趣，我应该指出，他们使用的字体是一种不错的字体，并且它们使用了不同的颜色。 那是一件事，确实有一点不同。 它是黑色或灰色，而不是蓝色。

Patrick: Right. That’s a good point.

帕特里克：对。 那是个很好的观点。

Stephan: Which is different, you know, it makes it stand out a little bit more. So anyway, good job guys. I really, really, really like it.

斯蒂芬：那是不同的，你知道，它使它更加突出。 所以无论如何，干得好。 我真的非常非常喜欢它。

Patrick: And the fireside chat continues with a story from ReadWriteWeb by Brian Prophet and this story is about an Internet Explorer 7 tax and there is a store, kogan.com, hopefully I’m pronouncing that right, and it is an Australian electronics retailer. I’m not familiar with it myself, but that’s just from judging the site. They also sell in the UK as well I guess. It’s kogan.com and kogan.co.uk, and he made a blog post, he being Russell Kogan, the owner of kogan.com, introducing a new Internet Explorer 7 tax. So what it means is that this company is charging users of Internet Explorer 7 an extra tax, in their words, on top of whatever purchase they want to make in the store, of 6.8%, that’s .1% for every month since IE7 has been released. I looked around, I tried to see if this was a joke, you know. I mean, there’s a tongue-in-cheek nature to it, but I mean the tax itself, he shows a screenshot, it’s listed as a tax of 6.8% of a purchase of I don’t know how much it was, but there’s a $41 tax on whatever this screenshot example is, and it appears to be a real charge. Hopefully I’m not wrong in that claim. I did some Googling and some research. Though it is meant as tongue-in-cheek and he said he doesn’t think anyone will actually pay it, it does apparently exist. What do you think about this?

帕特里克(Patrick)：在炉边聊天中，继续讲了Brian Prophet的ReadWriteWeb故事，这个故事讲的是Internet Explorer 7税，还有一家商店kogan.com，希望我能说出这一权利，这是一家澳大利亚电子产品零售商。 我本人并不熟悉它，但这只是从评估站点而已。 我猜他们也在英国出售。 这是kogan.com和kogan.co.uk，他发表了一篇博客文章，他是kogan.com的所有者Russell Kogan，他介绍了新的Internet Explorer 7税。 因此，这意味着这家公司要向Internet Explorer 7用户收取额外的税，用他们的话说，他们想在商店中进行的购买都是6.8％，这是自IE7以来每月的0.1％。被释放。 我环顾四周，我试图看看这是否是个玩笑。 我的意思是，这是一种开玩笑的性质，但是我的意思是，税收本身，他显示了一个屏幕截图，它被列为购买商品的6.8％的税收，我不知道这是多少。无论此屏幕截图示例是什么，都需要支付41美元的税，这似乎是一笔实际费用。 希望我的说法没有错。 我做了一些谷歌搜索和研究。 尽管这是开玩笑的意思，他说他认为没有人会真正付钱，但它确实存在。 你怎么看待这件事？

Stephan: I think it’s a bit ridiculous. I can understand his frustration, but what if someone just doesn’t want to install it, install a different browser or can’t because they’re on a work machine, then they’re going to have to pay 6.8% more on their purchase? People just won’t go buy it somewhere else. I don’t know. I can see why you would do something like this to make a statement, but at the same time I’m kind of, it kind of makes me scratch my head. On top of all of this, I’ll just say today I needed to do something that required me to complete a purchase online, and I couldn’t actually do it in Chrome. The website broke in Chrome. So I had to use Internet Explorer, and it worked.

史蒂芬：我认为这有点荒谬。 我能理解他的无奈，但是如果某人只是不想安装它，安装其他浏览器或者因为在工作机器上而无法安装它，那他们将不得不多付6.8％的费用怎么办？采购？ 人们只是不会去其他地方购买。 我不知道。 我可以理解为什么您会做这样的事情来发表声明，但是与此同时，我有点让我挠头。 最重要的是，我今天要说的是，我需要做一些事情，需要我完成在线购买，而我实际上无法在Chrome中完成购买。 该网站使用Chrome浏览器。 因此，我不得不使用Internet Explorer，并且它起作用了。

Patrick: Right. It probably wasn’t version 7.

帕特里克：对。 它可能不是版本7。

Stephan: No. It was 8.

史蒂芬：不，那是8 岁 。

Patrick: You know, and I wanted to, I was curious what you thought before I jaded the conversation with my “Why This is Bad”. But, I think your point is a good one. Like, I think that, so there’s a few issues here. First of all, I don’t, I’m not familiar with Australian law. I mean, this seems kind of strange to me, calling something a tax, and, I mean, I guess it’s OK. I’m sure they make money so I’m sure it’s been thoroughly vetted by their people, it does seem kind of strange to me in that regard, but two big reasons why it’s bad. First is, I think a lot of people, I think will probably accept that a lot of people who use IE7 use IE7 not out choice, but out of it simply being what they can use at work or elsewhere, and so this percentage of people that’s on IE7 it’s going to be, I would think to a substantial extent, people who can’t upgrade for some reason, and so you’re essentially telling people they’re going to pay extra. And the average person, like you said, is probably going to say “Forget that. I’m just gonna go elsewhere”, so what it becomes for you, first of all, you’re punishing people, right? Second of all, it’s a competitive disadvantage to you. You’ve effectively introduced a competitive disadvantage to your business. And I understand his point here that he has to pay developers and his web people extra money to make sure that their website is accommodating to IE7 and he wants to stop doing that and save money, so now he’s gonna pass that on to the customer I guess you could say. But, for every one of him there’s gonna be 100, 1,000, 5,000 other stores selling the same product that don’t do that. So, it definitely becomes a competitive disadvantage where, because it’s a good-sized company, from what I’m reading. They make a lot of money, so you have another large store who says “OK, we’re going to accept IE7” and they could even make a press event about it, a press release saying they’re accommodating to IE7, they understand, they feel bad for those people, they have sympathy for the people that are stuck on IE7 and they want to make it easier for those people shop, and I think that might be a better story.

帕特里克(Patrick)：您知道，而且我想，在我厌倦了与“为什么这很糟糕”的谈话之前，我很好奇您的想法。 但是，我认为您的观点很好。 就像，我认为，这里有几个问题。 首先，我不熟悉澳大利亚法律。 我的意思是，这对我来说有点奇怪，我称之为税，而且我想这还可以。 我确定他们能赚钱，所以我确定这已经被他们的人彻底审查过了，在我看来，这确实有些奇怪，但这是造成不良影响的两个主要原因。 首先，我认为很多人，我想可能会接受很多使用IE7的人并不是选择IE7，而是出于选择，只是因为他们可以在工作中或在其他地方使用，所以这一比例的人那将是在IE7上，我认为在很大程度上，由于某种原因而无法升级的人，因此，您实质上是在告诉人们他们将支付额外的费用。 就像您说的那样，普通人可能会说：“算了。 我只是要去别的地方”，所以这对您来说会是什么，首先，您在惩罚别人，对吗？ 其次，这对您来说是一个竞争劣势。 您已经有效地给您的企业带来了竞争劣势。 我在这里明白他的观点，他必须向开发人员和他的网络人员支付额外的钱，以确保他们的网站适应IE7，并且他想停止这样做并节省资金，所以现在他要将其转嫁给客户我猜猜你可以说。 但是，对于他的每一个人，将有100、1,000、5,000个其他商店销售不这样做的相同产品。 因此，从我所读的内容来看，这绝对是一个竞争劣势，因为这是一家规模庞大的公司。 他们赚了很多钱，所以您还有另一家大商店说“好，我们将接受IE7”，他们甚至可以举办新闻发布会，新闻稿说他们正在适应IE7，他们了解，他们对那些人感到难过，对那些被IE7困扰的人表示同情，他们想使这些人更容易购物，我认为那可能是一个更好的故事。

Stephan: You read the article and one of the quotes is “If we choose to make a pixel-perfect website in Internet Explorer 6 to 8 then we are doing up to 100% more work.” So, it’s not where they want to make it work to where it’s just functional, they want to make it pixel-perfect. And there’s a difference too in that thinking. If I wanted to make the website work in Chrome and look OK in IE7 I’m sure that not going to take 100% more work, but if I want to make them exactly the same to where every user gets the exact same experience, then of course, yeah, it’s going to take more work. Because they’re different browsers, and I think you’re still going to have to do that even with Safari and Chrome and Opera to get them all to work like that. You’re still going to have to do some level of more effort to get the websites to show up exactly the same, to get them to be pixel- perfect.

斯蒂芬：您阅读了这篇文章，其中的一句话是“如果我们选择在Internet Explorer 6至8中创建一个像素完美的网站，那么我们最多可以完成100％的工作。” 因此，这并不是他们想要使其发挥功能的地方，而是希望使它达到像素完美。 这种想法也有所不同。 如果我想让该网站在Chrome中运行并在IE7中看起来不错，那么我确定不会多做100％的工作，但是如果我想使其完全相同，以使每个用户都能获得完全相同的体验，那么当然，是的，这将需要更多的工作。 因为它们是不同的浏览器，而且我认为即使使用Safari，Chrome和Opera，您仍然必须这样做，才能使它们全部正常工作。 您仍然需要付出更多的努力才能使网站显示完全相同，并使它们成为像素完美的。

Patrick: Right. And that quote is from Lea Verou, hopefully I’m saying that right, and she was interviewed on the SitePoint Podcast back in November by Louie Simoneau on episode 139 if you want to check that out. But, yeah, I mean, it’s interesting to me to take this kind of road, and there’s definitely a lot of press being generated by it, so I’m sure that it’s been official, but looking at the stat counter, Global Stats, which measure usage of browsers and specific versions on all sites that are measured by statcounter.com, they’re regularly referred to as far as market share statistics are concerned, IE7 is currently at 1.53% of all browser usage. This is through May 2012. That’s not a big deal. Is that really worth making a stink over? Do you think that the 1.7% that aren’t up to date are going to be somehow motivated by the fact that you’re not going to sell them a product without charging them 7% extra? I don’t know. I just checked also, since this main base of operations appears to be Australia, I wanted to check what the IE7 count was in Australia and it’s 1.33%, so it’s not like there’s some disparity there between the global numbers and the Australian numbers. They are, you know, pretty much the same.

帕特里克：对。 那句话来自Lea Verou，希望我说的没错，如果您想查看一下，她在11月的Louie Simoneau的第139集的SitePoint播客中接受了采访。 但是，是的，我的意思是，走这条路对我来说很有趣，而且肯定会产生很多新闻，所以我敢肯定这是官方的，但请看一下统计柜台Global Stats，根据statcounter.com衡量所有网站上浏览器和特定版本使用情况的指标，就市场份额统计数据而言，它们经常被引用，IE7当前占所有浏览器使用率的1.53％。 到2012年5月为止。这没什么大不了的。 这真的值得臭吗？ 您是否认为尚未更新的1.7％会在某种程度上受到以下事实的激励：您不会在不向他们收取7％的费用的情况下向他们出售产品？ 我不知道。 我也刚刚检查了一下，因为这个主要的业务基地似乎是澳大利亚，所以我想检查一下IE7在澳大利亚的数量是1.33％，所以这并不意味着全球数字与澳大利亚数字之间存在一些差异。 您知道，它们几乎相同。

Stephan: Yeah. And what kind of items do they sell you said?

斯蒂芬：是的。 他们说你卖什么物品？

Patrick: They sell electronics, home appliances, cameras, tablets, audio equipment, phones. I mean, they’re like an electronics store.

帕特里克(Patrick)：他们销售电子产品，家用电器，相机，平板电脑，音频设备，电话。 我的意思是，他们就像一家电子产品商店。

Stephan: OK, yeah. I mean, so, it’s surprising to me that they have such a large number of IE users that they had to come up with this.

斯蒂芬：好的，是的。 我的意思是，因此，令我感到惊讶的是，他们拥有如此众多的IE用户，以至于不得不提出这个建议。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Stephan: And this tax is on their home page which makes me think more and more that it’s kind of a publicity thing.

史蒂芬：这项税收在他们的主页上，这使我越来越多地认为这是一种宣传。

Patrick: Oh yeah. I think, yeah, there’s no doubt that it is, but, you know, could you imagine Best Buy doing this or Amazon or name any, buy.com or any large internet retailer that sells electronics and Amazon moves a ton of electronics obviously, doing that sort of thing? No, in fact if they find that 1% of their users use a certain thing they’ll optimize for that 1%.

帕特里克：是的。 我认为，是的，这是毫无疑问的，但是，您知道吗，您可以想象百思买这样做或亚马逊，或者命名为buy.com或任何出售电子产品的大型互联网零售商，而亚马逊显然在移动大量电子产品，在做那种事情？ 不，实际上，如果他们发现有1％的用户使用了某种东西，他们会为此1％进行优化。

Stephan: Wow, I just don’t get it. I think it’s a bad move personally in the long term.

史蒂芬：哇，我不明白。 从长远来看，我个人认为这是一个坏举动。

Patrick: Yeah, it’s a tricky thing. It’s almost like a statement that would be best served on a store that was focused at web designers, right? Like a font shop or a web development book place, like SitePoint books.

帕特里克：是的，这很棘手。 这几乎就像一条声明，最好在专门针对网页设计师的商店中使用，对吗？ 像是字体商店或Web开发书店，例如SitePoint书。

Stephan: Yeah, yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的，是的。

Patrick: Or someone who really sells hard designers and people who are like “Oh, yeah. I hate IE7. I hate IE7”, not a general consumer web store.

帕特里克(Patrick)：或者是一个真正推销坚强设计师的人，比如“哦，是的。 我讨厌IE7。 我讨厌IE7”，而不是一般的消费者网上商店。

Stephan: Yeah, exactly. I think a more niche site would be better suited for this type of move. Definitely.

斯蒂芬：是的，确实如此。 我认为，更具特色的网站将更适合此类举动。 绝对是

Patrick: Alright, so that brings the story portion of our show to an end, but we’ve got spotlights and since we only have the two of us, Stephan is going to take two spotlights this week.

帕特里克(Patrick)：好的，这使我们演出的故事部分结束了，但是我们有很多聚光灯，而且由于我们只有两个人，所以斯蒂芬本周将要亮相两个聚光灯。

Stephan: Yeah, so I’ll go with the first one, the more serious one, is an article in the Atlantic, about how history’s greatest inventions really happened. It’s about eight different inventions that we all have somehow used probably today in some way, and really how they weren’t invented by a single person, and how it was a growth of either knowledge or growth of history or a growth of something and how it all came together to become this invention that one person is known for. So they go through things like the telegraph, the telephone, the movie project, the airplane, and the television and some others and it’s just a great read and it makes you think that even though you may be doing something and you feel like you’re the only person out there that’s ever come up with something, there’s been probably someone else that’s come up with something similar and you’re just building on top of it. I think it’s kind of humbling.

斯蒂芬：是的，所以我要讲的第一个，更严肃的是，在大西洋上的一篇文章，讲述历史上最伟大的发明是如何发生的。 今天我们大概都以某种方式使用了大约八种不同的发明，实际上它们是不是一个人发明的，它是知识的增长还是历史的增长或某物的增长以及如何发展。所有人共同成为了这项发明。 因此，他们经历了诸如电报，电话，电影项目，飞机，电视以及其他一些东西，这是一本很棒的书，它使您认为即使您正在做某事并且觉得自己是唯一一个提出过类似建议的人，可能还有其他人提出过类似的建议，而您只是在此之上。 我认为这有点谦虚。

Patrick: Yeah. I think that’s an interesting point and I guess that has particular applications kind of our web dev tech software where all of them talk about patents and all the lawsuits.

帕特里克：是的。 我认为这很有趣，我想我们的Web开发技术软件具有特定的应用程序类型，其中所有人都谈论专利和所有诉讼。

Stephan: Yeah, exactly. I think it’s just a good read for people who are writing code or doing something. You’re building on the blocks of someone else before you, even if you’re not inherently aware of it.

斯蒂芬：是的，确实如此。 我认为这对于编写代码或做某事的人来说是一本好书。 即使您并非天生就意识到这一点，您仍在构建其他人的障碍。

Patrick: Very cool, and I noticed that the title of this article is “Forget Edison: This is How History’s Greatest Inventions Really Happened”. Is it just me or is Edison taking some heat lately? I don’t know if you caught, did you catch The Oatmeal comic about why Nikola Tesla was the greatest geek to ever live and how Edison was basically a-

帕特里克：非常酷，我注意到本文的标题是“忘记爱迪生：这是历史上最伟大的发明真正发生的方式”。 是我还是爱迪生最近才来点热量？ 我不知道您是否被捉住，是否被《燕麦片》(The Oatmeal)漫画所吸引，这部漫画讲述了尼古拉·特斯拉(Nikola Tesla)为什么是有史以来最伟大的怪胎，以及爱迪生的基本想法

Stephan: A chump?

史蒂芬：笨蛋？

Patrick: Yeah, a money-grubbing jerk? Yeah, yeah. What did you think of all that?

帕特里克：是的，一个混蛋？ 是啊。 您如何看待所有这些？

Stephan: Which was funny too, and then there was this huge paper written on about how we shouldn’t write off, or how we shouldn’t worship Tesla, which is another great read.

史蒂芬：这也很有趣，然后写了一篇关于我们不应该注销或不应该崇拜特斯拉的论文，这是另一本很棒的读物。

Patrick: And what’s the second spotlight?

帕特里克：第二点是什么？

Stephan: Well, the second spotlight is more of an iPhone app tool fun thing to play with. I am going on a trip in July and I wrote a time lapse application for my calculator. I have a TI-83 or something and I wanted to do time lapse with it and so I wrote this application in basic and then plugged the calculator into my DSLR and took time lapse photos with it, but it’s just bulky and it’s a pain in the butt. So, there’s this application for your iPhone called Trigger Trap, and it’s a mobile application and it has a little plug that you plug into your phone and then it connects to your camera and it allows you to do things like time lapse, ease time lapse, HDR, just a bunch of different things, and I think it’s a really cool tool and I’ve just started playing with it so I’m just now getting a feel for it. But I’m really excited that now I can just carry only my phone and not have to lug a calculator halfway across the world.

斯蒂芬：嗯，第二个焦点是更多的iPhone应用程序工具。 我要在7月旅行，并且为计算器编写了一个延时应用程序。 我有TI-83之类的东西，我想用它做延时摄影，所以我用基本的方法编写了这个应用程序，然后将计算器插入我的DSLR并用它拍了延时摄影照片，但是它体积很大，而且很难屁股。 因此，您的iPhone有一个名为Trigger Trap的应用程序，它是一个移动应用程序，它有一个小插头，您可以将其插入手机，然后将其连接到相机，并允许您执行诸如延时，减轻延时等操作。 ，HDR，只是一堆不同的东西，我认为它是一个非常酷的工具，我刚刚开始使用它，所以现在才对它有所了解。 但令我感到非常兴奋的是，现在我只可以携带手机，而不必将计算器拖到世界各地。

Patrick: Very cool, and I noticed it is, the premium version is $9.99. There’s also a free version. Which one are you using?

帕特里克：非常酷，我注意到了，高级版是9.99美元。 还有一个免费版本。 您正在使用哪一个？

Stephan: Right now I’m doing the free trial just to make sure it’s what I want and then I’m going to upgrade. I’m going to upgrade for sure because it does what I want to do, and the application allows you to take time lapse photos with your phone itself which is cool too.

斯蒂芬：现在我正在做免费试用，只是为了确保它是我想要的，然后我将进行升级。 我肯定会升级，因为它可以完成我想做的事情，并且该应用程序允许您使用手机本身来拍摄延时照片，这也很酷。

Patrick: Very cool. And you’re going to do some, how many continents are we touching down on this summer?

帕特里克：非常酷。 您要做的是，今年夏天我们降落了多少大洲？

Stephan: Just two, just going to Europe.

斯蒂芬：只有两个，正要去欧洲。

Patrick: Very cool. So my spotlight is going to be Brad Williams who, you know, was part of the initial team. Brad is going to get married on June 25th to April Helene and they’re going on a cruise ship and doing a big thing, but I just wanted to pass along our congratulations. I got an opportunity to hang out with Brad and April last fall in Philadelphia and it was a great time and they’re great people and wish them the best.

帕特里克：非常酷。 因此，我的焦点将是布拉德·威廉姆斯，他是最初团队的一员。 布拉德(Brad)将于6月25日至4月海伦(Helene)结婚，他们将乘坐游轮做一件大事，但我只想通过我们的祝贺。 去年秋天，我有一个机会与布拉德(Brad)和四月在费城闲逛，那是一个美好的时光，他们是很棒的人，并祝他们一切顺利。

Stephan: Congrats Brad and April.

斯蒂芬：恭喜布拉德和阿普尔。

Patrick: And it’s all coming up gold for Brad. He’s also got, he just announced the second edition of Professional WordPress for APress, and it’s coming so he’s a multiple author now. That’s two book, and this will be the second edition of his second book I believe as well, so lots of things happening for Brad. The SitePoint Podcast was but a stepping stone. Well let’s go ahead around the table. It’s a big table with a lot of people around it, so this might take a while, but Stephan why don’t you go ahead?

帕特里克(Patrick)：这一切都为布拉德(Brad)赚了金。 他也知道了，他刚刚宣布了APress的第二版Professional WordPress，而且即将发行，因此他现在是多位作者。 那是两本书，这也是他相信的第二本书的第二版，所以布拉德发生了很多事情。 SitePoint播客只是一个垫脚石。 好吧，我们围着桌子走。 这是一张大桌子，周围有很多人，所以这可能需要一段时间，但是斯蒂芬为什么不继续呢？

Stephan: Yeah, I’m Stephan Segraves. You can find me on Twitter @ssegraves and I blog at badice.com.

斯蒂芬：是的，我是斯蒂芬·塞格雷夫斯。 你可以找到我的Twitter @ssegraves ，我在博客badice.com 。

Patrick: And I am Patrick O’Keefe, of the iFroggy Network. I blog at managingcommunities.com and you can find me on Twitter @ifroggy, and you can also follow our usual co-hosts, Louis Simoneau and Kevin Dees @rssaddict and @kevindees, and follow SitePoint at @sitepointdotcom. Visit us at sitepoint.com/podcast to leave comments on this show and to subscribe to receive every show automatically. You can also email at podcast@sitepoint.com with your questions for us. We’d love to read them out on the show and give you our advice. The SitePoint Podcast is produced by Karn Broad . Thank you for listening and we’ll see you next week.

帕特里克：我是iFroggy网络的帕特里克·奥基夫。 我的博客managingcommunities.com ，你可以找到我的Twitter @ifroggy ，你也可以按照我们通常的共同主办，路易西莫努和凯文迪斯@rssaddict和@kevindees ，并按照SitePoint在@sitepointdotcom 。 请访问sitepoint.com/podcast访问我们，以对该节目发表评论并订阅以自动接收每个节目。 您也可以发送电子邮件至podcast@sitepoint.com ，向我们提出问题。 我们很乐意在节目中朗读它们，并为您提供建议。 SitePoint播客由Karn Broad制作。 感谢您的收听，下周见。

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Theme music by Mike Mella.

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