Episode 181 of The SitePoint Podcast is now available! This week we have the full panel, Louis Simoneau (@rssaddict), Stephan Segraves (@ssegraves), Patrick O’Keefe (@ifroggy) and Kevin Dees (@kevindees).

SitePoint Podcast的第181集现已发布！ 这周我们将举行完整的小组讨论，分别是Louis Simoneau( @rssaddict )，Stephan Segraves( @ssegraves )，Patrick O'Keefe( @ifroggy )和Kevin Dees( @kevindees )。

下载此剧集 (Download this Episode)

You can download this episode as a standalone MP3 file. Here’s the link:

您可以将本集下载为独立的MP3文件。 这是链接：

• SitePoint Podcast #181: Solving More Problems Than You Create (MP3, 33:41, 32.3MB)

  SitePoint Podcast＃181：解决比您创建的更多的问题 (MP3，33:41，32.3MB)

剧集摘要 (Episode Summary)

The panel discuss topics such as a new paid social network, user testing and several typography related topics!

小组讨论主题，例如新的付费社交网络，用户测试以及一些与字体相关的主题！

Here are the main topics covered in this episode:

以下是本集中介绍的主要主题：

• Indieconf 2012 – Web Freelancer Conference

  Indieconf 2012 –网络自由职业者大会

• Adobe Edge Reflow | Edge Tools and Services | Adobe and HTML

  Adobe Edge回流| 边缘工具和服务| Adobe和HTML

• W3C Announce HTML5 2014 Delivery Plan – SitePoint

  W3C宣布HTML5 2014交付计划– SitePoint

• Myspace teases a completely rethought service, and believe it or not, it looks beautiful – The Next Web

  Myspace嘲笑一个完全重新考虑的服务，不管您信不信由你，它看起来很漂亮– The Next Web

Browse the full list of links referenced in the show at http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/181.

浏览http://delicious.com/sitepointpodcast/181中显示的参考链接的完整列表。

主持人聚光灯 (Host Spotlights)

• Patrick: GameMaster Howard on Facebook.com

  帕特里克： Facebook.com上的GameMaster Howard

• Louis: xkcd: Click and Drag

  路易： xkcd：单击并拖动

• Stephan: World’s Best Father

  斯蒂芬： 世界上最好的父亲

• Kevin: Cross domain javascript interface

  凯文： 跨域JavaScript界面

面试成绩单 (Interview Transcript)

Louis: Hello, and welcome to the SitePoint Podcast. We’ve got a panel show together this week to talk about all the latest news and developments in the world of web design and development. So with me on the show today is our full panel of regular hosts, Kevin Dees, Patrick O’Keefe, and the Stephan Segraves. Hi guys.

路易斯：您好，欢迎来到SitePoint播客。 我们本周将举行一次小组讨论，讨论Web设计和开发领域中的所有最新新闻和发展。 因此，今天和我一起参加的是我们的全场定期主持人，包括Kevin Dees，Patrick O'Keefe和Stephan Segraves。 嗨，大家好。

Kevin: Howdy, howdy.

凯文：你好，你好。

Stephan: Hi.

史蒂芬：嗨。

Patrick: It feels like it’s been longer than it has been. It’s actually only been two group shows since we’ve done one altogether and we were talking about this before the show but I think it’s just because we love each other so much. That’s all. That why it feels longer.

帕特里克：感觉已经比以前更长了。 因为我们已经完成了一个整体表演，所以实际上只是两个小组表演，我们在表演之前就在谈论这个，但是我认为这仅仅是因为我们彼此之间非常热爱。 就这样。 这就是为什么感觉更长。

Louis: Yeah, I thought you were going to say it feels like it’s been more than the three seconds it’s been since the last take of that intro.

路易斯：是的，我想你要说的是，自从上次介绍以来，已经超过了三秒钟。

Kevin: It feels like deja vu in here.

凯文：好像在这里似的似曾相识。

Patrick: We’re professionals.

帕特里克：我们是专业人士。

Louis: Yeah, we are. So how’s everybody been?

路易斯：是的，我们是。 大家好吗？

Stephan: Been good. How about yourself?

斯蒂芬：很好。 那你呢

Louis: Most excellent. Things are progressing, all kinds of work projects. At the moment we’ve got something on the go at Flippa that we’ll be revealing pretty soon, so excited about that.

路易斯：最出色。 事情正在进展，各种各样的工作项目。 目前，在Flippa上我们正在忙些什么，我们很快就会揭晓，对此感到非常兴奋。

Patrick: Excellent.

帕特里克：太好了。

Kevin: I have interesting things going on myself. I don’t know if you guys know, but Patrick and I will be speaking at Indie Comp. I’m kind of nervous about it because last time I went, my car broke down, so-

凯文：我身上发生了有趣的事情。 我不知道你们是否知道，但是帕特里克和我将在Indie Comp上发表演讲。 我对此很紧张，因为上次去时，我的车坏了，所以-

Patrick: Yeah, Kevin’s car broke down and thankfully I was there so he didn’t have to sleep outside with the wolves.

帕特里克：是的，凯文的车坏了，幸好我在那儿，所以他不必和狼在外面睡觉。

Kevin: Yes.

凯文：是的。

Patrick: The wolves of Raleigh, North Carolina. Yeah, so we’re going to speak, both are going to be speaking at Indie Comp this year and that’s in Raleigh, North Carolina on November 17th. I’m going to be speaking about how to monetize your website and get the most out of that. Kevin, what are you talking about?

帕特里克：北卡罗来纳州罗利市的狼群。 是的，所以我们要发言，两个人都将在今年的Indie Comp大会上发言，那是11月17日在北卡罗来纳州罗利市的讲话。 我将要谈论如何通过您的网站获利并从中获得最大收益。 凯文，你在说什么？

Kevin: I’ll be talking about basically booting up, pragmatic WordPress development kind of launching a WordPress site using some tools that are available. I’ll probably end up writing a blog post about it once I have everything together. I don’t want to spoil anything for those who are going to show up to the event.

凯文(Kevin)：我将谈论的是基本的启动，实用的WordPress开发，即使用一些可用的工具启动WordPress网站。 一旦我把所有东西都放在一起，我可能最终会写一篇关于它的博客文章。 我不想破坏那些准备参加活动的人。

Patrick: Awesome. Well, indieconf is focused at independent web professionals and freelancers, so if you’re in the area, Raleigh, an hour or two away, definitely come check it out. We’d love to meet you. It’s only $99 and you can buy tickets at indieconf.com.

帕特里克：太棒了。 好吧，indieconf专注于独立的Web专业人士和自由职业者，因此，如果您位于罗利(Raleigh)地区，一个或两个小时的路程，肯定要检查一下。 我们很高兴见到你。 仅售99美元，您可以在indieconf.com上购买门票。

Kevin: Yeah, and just a word of advice…

凯文：是的，只是一个建议……

Patrick: Charge your car battery?

帕特里克：给汽车电池充电吗？

Kevin: Yeah, exactly. Bring your jumper cables. That’s a good idea. That’s just a really good idea.

凯文：是的，确实如此。 带上跨接电缆。 好主意。 那真是个好主意。

Louis: All right, well why don’t we just dive straight into this week’s news?

路易斯：好吧，为什么我们不直接了解本周的新闻呢？

Patrick: Let’s do it.

帕特里克：开始吧。

Louis: I guess the biggest story and both me and Kevin had picked this as the biggest story of the last few weeks is Adobe’s recent launch of what it’s calling the Edge Tools and Services, which is basically all of its sort of web standards-based development tools, all of the stuff that previously was… The one that’s Animation which I think used to be called Edge Preview or something like that, which is now called Edge Animate, and they’ve got a bunch of others tools in there. Including the sort of branded version of their open source HTML-based HTML editor called Brackets which they’re branding as Edge Code, but the Brackets project is still open source, as well as some cool tools for web fonts and responsive design.

路易斯：我想最重要的故事是我和凯文都将其视为过去几周的最大故事，这是Adobe最近推出了所谓的Edge工具和服务，这基本上是基于Web标准的所有形式开发工具，以前所有的东西。我以前认为动画是Edge Preview或类似的东西，现在叫做Edge Animate，并且那里还有很多其他工具。 包括他们的基于HTML的开源HTML编辑器的品牌版本(称为Brackets)，他们将其商标为Edge Code，但Brackets项目仍是开源的，以及一些用于Web字体和响应式设计的出色工具。

Kevin: Yeah, Phone Gap’s also in there which is really cool .

凯文：是的，Phone Gap也在那里，这真的很酷。

Louis: Right, right, so Phone Gap build, which they had included as part of the Creative Cloud subscription is now falling under the umbrella, I guess, of the Edge Tools as well.

路易斯：对，对，因此，我猜他们也包括在Edge Tools的保护范围之内，它们已作为Creative Cloud订阅的一部分包括在内。

Kevin: Phone Gap is also in Dreamweaver, right? I think you can export to Phone Gap or something. I haven’t done it from Dreamweaver. But I remember there being a video on it at some point.

凯文： Dreamweaver中也有Phone Gap，对吗？ 我认为您可以导出到Phone Gap之类的东西。 我还没有在Dreamweaver中做到这一点。 但我记得在某个时候有一个视频。

Louis: I think there was something to that effect, yeah. So the new cool tool that they’ve announced with this set of tools is Adobe Edge Reflow, which is sort of a responsive design tool which is sort of just a… Yeah, it’s a layout and design tool for visual designers, but that lets you test responsive designs and the way they reflow and also export your break points and media queries for use in your style sheet. So it looks pretty interesting. It’s a very early preview. I don’t think it’s actually released yet. But it looks very interesting, especially because that job for a visual designer of making four or five different Photoshop comps for each break point or each different layout you want to do can be pretty tedious. So having a design tool that includes reflowing and the ability to export break points is potentially really interesting.

路易斯：我认为是有某种效果的，是的。 因此，他们用这套工具宣布的新工具很酷，那就是Adobe Edge Reflow，它是一种响应式设计工具，仅是一种…是的，它是视觉设计师的布局和设计工具，但是您可以测试自适应设计及其重排方式，还可以导出断点和媒体查询以供样式表使用。 所以看起来很有趣。 这是一个非常早期的预览。 我认为它尚未真正发布。 但这看起来非常有趣，尤其是对于视觉设计师来说，为每个断点或您想要做的每个不同布局制作四个或五个不同的Photoshop合成物的工作可能非常繁琐。 因此，拥有一种包括回流焊和导出断点的功能的设计工具可能真的很有趣。

Kevin: Yeah, and to be honest, this kind of solves an interesting problem which is, or it has been for me, maybe smaller sites, which is the fact that you get a PSD and there are no responsive break points. Then they’re like “Make it responsive” and you’re the developer and you’re like, “Okay.”

凯文：是的，老实说，这种方法可以解决一个有趣的问题，对我来说，也许是较小的站点，这就是您获得PSD的事实，并且没有响应性的断点。 然后他们就像“让它响应”，而你是开发者，就像“好”。

Louis: There’s too much content here. How do you want to shrink this down to 320 pixels wide?

路易斯：这里内容太多。 您如何将其缩小到320像素宽？

Kevin: Exactly. So this is kind of nice in that perhaps you could get the original PSD, chop that up if you want to chop it up, however you want to do it, and then kind of hand that back and say “Okay, now you go in, use this tool and change what I did. So, show me kind of what you want and I’ll tweak it,” right? “But give me an idea of what you want so I’m not the one trying to make these creative decisions. I mean, I can make those creative decisions, right, but you’re the one who’s getting paid to do this,” right? “So you do it”.

凯文：是的 。 因此，这很不错，因为您可能会得到原始的PSD，如果您想将其切碎，则将其切碎，但是您想要这样做，然后回过头说：“好吧，现在您进入，请使用此工具并更改我的操作。 所以，请告诉我您想要什么，然后我将对其进行调整，”对吗？ “但是请给我您想要的想法，所以我不是试图做出这些创造性决定的人。 我的意思是，我可以做出这些创造性的决定，对，但是您是为此而获得报酬的人，”对吗？ “所以你去做”。

Louis: Yeah, exactly.

路易斯：是的，确实如此。

Kevin: I’m not getting paid to. So, to me it seems like a really, really cool tool. I have some concerns about it, but to be honest I feel like this solves more problems than it creates.

凯文：我没有得到报酬。 因此，对我来说，这似乎是一个非常非常酷的工具。 我对此有一些担忧，但是老实说，我觉得这解决了比它造成的更多的问题。

Louis: That’s the least you could expect from a new tool is that it creates fewer problems than it solves.

路易斯：您对新工具的期望至少是，它产生的问题少于解决的问题。

Patrick: Adobe Edge Reflow. Insert your slogan here, “We create less problems than we solve. From the people who brought you Flash.”

帕特里克： Adobe Edge回流。 在这里插入您的口号：“我们创造的问题少于解决的问题。 来自为您带来Flash的人们。”

Louis: Which did, in fact, create more problems than it solves, I think. I think we can all agree on that.

路易斯：我认为，实际上，这造成的问题多于解决的问题。 我认为我们都可以对此表示同意。

Patrick: Poor Flash, you look back at it now and it’s not the same as you looked at it when it first started.

帕特里克：可怜的Flash，现在回头看看，它与它刚开始时所看到的不一样。

Kevin: Walking on thin ice there. Plenty of Flash people I’m sure listen to this.

凯文：在那薄冰上行走。 我相信有很多Flash人。

Patrick: Personally, my head started to explode when I heard HTML-based HTML Editor. I just want to know at what point does this become too – I don’t know, too META?

帕特里克：就个人而言，当我听到基于HTMLHTML编辑器时，我的头开始爆炸。 我只想知道这在什么时候变成了–我也不知道META吗？

Kevin: That’s deep.

凯文：那很深。

Stephan: Is this all browser based?

史蒂芬：这都是基于浏览器的吗？

Louis: I don’t think all of it is. No, I think Reflow and Animate are desktop tools like the other Adobe products. I haven’t actually used Brackets.

路易斯：我认为不是全部。 不，我认为Reflow和Animate是与其他Adobe产品一样的桌面工具。 我实际上并没有使用过括号。

Kevin: I’m surprised Muse didn’t really end up in this suite to be honest.

凯文：说实话，我很惊讶缪斯并没有真正进入这套套件。

Louis: Which one was Muse? I can’t keep up with their names anymore.

路易斯：缪斯是哪一个？ 我已经跟不上他们的名字了。

Kevin: Muse was like – I don’t even know if they still have it to be honest. I feel like they do. I use Creative Cloud by the way, so, disclaimer. Adobe doesn’t pay me. I pay Adobe, so whatever. But basically Muse was sort of like their, “Hey, we know you want to use In Design for web development type things and not Photoshop, so we kind of tried to create…” This is in context of Adobe speaking, which is, “We tried to create this tool that basically does what In Design does for web designers,” and to me it still feels broken.

凯文：缪斯就像–我什至不知道他们是否仍然诚实。 我感觉像他们一样。 顺便说一下，我使用Creative Cloud。 Adobe不付钱给我。 我付钱给Adobe，无论如何。 但是基本上Muse有点像他们，“嘿，我们知道您想使用In Design来开发Web开发类型的东西，而不是Photoshop，因此我们尝试创建……”这是在Adobe的背景下进行的，即“我们试图创建这种工具，该工具基本上可以完成In Design为网页设计师所做的工作。”

Louis: Right.

路易斯：对。

Kevin: At least the last time I used it, but to be honest I saw that tool as a really, really good wire framing tool. I mean, you could throw together some designs and site maps really, really quickly. I mean it’s a great tool for that. I used it several times for wire framing.

凯文：至少我上一次使用它，但老实说，我将该工具视为一个非常非常好的线架工具。 我的意思是，您可以非常非常快地将一些设计和站点地图放在一起。 我的意思是这是一个很好的工具。 我多次使用它来进行线架。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Kevin: People have different opinions about wire frames because maybe they should be done with pencils or look incomplete. But to me it was like you could throw together a site map, have a working site really quickly. How awesome is that for a wire frame or at least a workflow of like, “Hey, here are the interactions that the site can have and this is it. We just built it today.” So, I don’t know. I’m surprised it’s not in here.

凯文：人们对线框有不同的看法，因为也许应该用铅笔或看起来不完整。 但是对我来说，这就像您可以将站点地图放在一起，并且可以很快地拥有一个工作站点。 对于线框或至少这样的工作流程来说，这真是太棒了，“嘿，这是网站可以进行的互动，仅此而已。 我们今天才建造它。” 所以，我不知道。 我很惊讶它不在这里。

Patrick: Yeah, Adobe Muse is still a thing it appears.

帕特里克：是的，Adobe Muse仍然是一种外观。

Kevin: I think it’s its own tool.

凯文：我认为这是它自己的工具。

Patrick: Yeah, it like you might have to subscribe to the Cloud or at least buy it on a plan.

帕特里克：是的，就像您可能必须订阅云或至少按计划购买它一样。

Louis: I’m getting the feeling the Edge Tools are really targeted at sort of open standards style web developers and the Adobe Muse is more of a design tool that happens to spit out some functional code. So, it’s really aimed at people who don’t want to think about code whereas the Edge tools it feels like…

路易斯：我感觉到Edge工具实际上是针对某种开放标准样式的Web开发人员，而Adobe Muse更像是一种设计工具，恰好会吐出一些功能代码。 因此，它实际上是针对不想考虑代码的人，而Edge工具感觉就像……

Kevin: That’s a really good point.

凯文：这是一个非常好的观点。

Louis: As we witnessed earlier when we were trying to remember what Muse was, I find that all their branding is a little muddy and even trying to describe what the Edge series of tools is I kind of ran into some problems there. But I think as a general idea, or the approach that they want to take and try and make some open web projects that are more piecemeal. Someone, I think it was in a piece on the Next Web I was reading, one of the people from Adobe had sort of said that they understand that they don’t have the kind of market dominance in this area that they’re used to having with Flash and Photoshop and Illustrator. So they’ve tried to make tools that are sort of more useable in piecemeal where you can sort of take one or two things that you need and just use those. But there are definitely some really interesting projects coming out of here. Your Reflow, like I said, is the most interesting, but the animation tool for CSS Javascript animation and some other stuff as well.

路易斯：正如我们在想起Muse是什么时所看到的那样，我发现他们的所有品牌都有些混乱，甚至试图描述Edge系列工具是什么，我在那里都遇到了一些问题。 但是，我认为这是一个总体思路，或者是他们想采取的方法，并尝试使一些开放的Web项目变得更加零碎。 有人，我认为这是我正在阅读的Next Web上的一篇文章，Adobe的一位人士曾说过，他们了解他们不习惯于此领域的那种市场支配地位与Flash，Photoshop和Illustrator一起使用。 因此，他们试图使工具变得更有用，使您可以零碎地使用一两个需要的东西，然后使用它们。 但是肯定会有一些非常有趣的项目。 就像我说的，您的Reflow是最有趣的，但是CSS CSS动画和其他一些东西的动画工具也是如此。

Kevin: Yeah, I’ve heard really good things about Animate as far as people who have used, I think, After Effects. I think it works really similarly to After Effects. I was actually having a conversation over Skype with one of my friends who’s done a lot of Flash development in the past and he’s worked a lot with After Effects and that kind of thing and he said he really liked the Edge Animate because it felt at home with the other tools. So it was really cool to hear that.

凯文：是的，就使用过After Effects的人而言，我听说过Animate的确很不错。 我认为它的工作原理与After Effects类似。 我实际上是通过Skype与我的一个朋友进行的对话，该朋友过去曾经做过很多Flash开发，他与After Effects合作过很多，诸如此类，他说他真的很喜欢Edge Animate，因为它感觉像在家一样与其他工具。 听到这个消息真的很酷。

Louis: Yeah.

路易斯：是的。

Patrick: I was impressed that you disclosed, Kevin, that you pay someone else money. I mean, yeah, it speaks to your honesty and integrity but I was like, “He’s disclosing that he gives someone else his hard-earned money.” They are the ones with the conflict of interest, them.

帕特里克(Patrick)：凯文(Kevin)透露您付钱给别人，给我留下了深刻的印象。 是的，我的意思是说这是对您的诚实和正直，但我想，“他是在向别人透露他的血汗钱。” 他们是有利益冲突的人。

Louis: Just full disclosure, I have the conflict of interest.

路易斯：完全公开一下，我有利益冲突。

Kevin: Yeah, so I also buy things at McDonald’s and Walmart and K- Mart. Shop where you like, this is where I shop.

凯文：是的，所以我也在麦当劳，沃尔玛和凯马特买东西。 在您喜欢的地方购物，这是我在哪里购物。

Stephan: So, the W3C has announced their HTML5 delivery plan and basically, to summarize everything that they’ve written in this long document that they wrote is that HTML5 will reach recommendation status by the end of 2014. So you’re looking at two more years until it’s at recommendation status. So, new and unstable features that aren’t done by then are going to be pushed to HTML5.1 and they will be in recommendation status by the end of 2016. So you’re looking at a two-year road map for most of the features that you’re seeing now.

史蒂芬： W3C已经宣布了他们HTML5交付计划，基本上，总结他们在这份长文件中所写的所有内容是，HTML5将于2014年底达到推荐状态。因此，您要看两个再过几年才达到推荐状态。 因此，届时尚未完成的新功能和不稳定功能将被推送到HTML5.1，到2016年底它们将处于推荐状态。因此，您将在大多数情况下使用两年路线图您现在看到的功能。

Louis: Right. Two years doesn’t sound too crazy to me because there’s definitely a lot of stuff in the HTML5 specification at the moment that is pretty in flux. I mean, I know we talked to, pretty recently about all of the work going on around responsive images. There was a big controversy about which approach to take there, and there are a lot of other sort of like more Edge features that are still, they feel very, very rough. So, it feels like two years is definitely reasonable. It might not be enough. As you said, it’s likely that there will be some unstable features. But if at least, they can get to some sort of – I don’t want to say lock-down. Because it does raise an interesting question which is that, what difference does it make, because the browsers aren’t actually targeted the published version of the spec anyway. The browsers are just implementing features.

路易斯：对。 两年对我来说听起来并不疯狂，因为目前HTML5规范中肯定有很多东西在不断变化。 我的意思是，我知道我们最近进行了交谈，涉及有关响应式图像的所有工作。 关于采用哪种方法存在很大的争议，还有很多其他类似的Edge功能仍然存在，它们感觉非常非常粗糙。 因此，感觉两年绝对是合理的。 可能还不够。 正如您所说，可能会有一些不稳定的功能。 但是，至少，他们可以达成某种目标–我不想说锁定。 因为它确实提出了一个有趣的问题，那就是，它有什么区别，因为浏览器实际上并没有针对规范的发布版本。 浏览器只是实现功能。

Kevin: Right. We all use Web Kit now, right?

凯文：对。 我们现在都使用Web Kit，对吗？

Louis: I’ll pretend you didn’t say that. But it does sort of speak to the point where, there are a lot of features both in Web Kit and in Mozilla, and in Opera which are sort of very, very much in flux in the specification. But the browsers are just going ahead and implementing them. I think with the very rapid release cycles that we’re seeing with most browsers that aren’t blue is that they can do that. They can just pump in new features whenever in something. It’s sort of like, “Oh, let’s test that, see how this works,” and it goes in and people play with it and then it feeds back in the spec. So I was wondering what you think, Kevin, in terms of what’s the value proposition here of the W3C having a lock-down? This is HTML5, anything else is in development for another spec. What does it matter that it’s in development for another spec if it’s widely supported and implemented?

路易斯：我假装你没那么说。 但这确实可以说是这样，Web Kit，Mozilla和Opera中都有很多功能，这些功能在规范中非常非常多。 但是浏览器只是在继续并实现它们。 我认为，对于大多数不是蓝色的浏览器，我们看到的发布周期非常快，它们可以做到这一点。 他们可以随时随地使用新功能。 有点像，“哦，让我们测试一下，看看它是如何工作的。”它进入人们的视野，然后反馈到规范中。 所以我想知道，凯文，关于W3C处于锁定状态的价值主张是什么？ 这是HTML5，其他规范正在开发中。 如果它得到了广泛的支持和实施，那么正在开发另一个规范又有什么关系呢？

Kevin: I think this kind of approach actually pushes vendors to work more with a W3C while implementing some of these new tools. But kind of push those more into the W3C because that’s a standard that people know. It’s something that’s safe, that’s comfortable, at least for the standardistas of us. So, I can see this approach, at least for the W3C, giving them more leverage with the vendors, the browser makers. Now, the interesting part of this is features like video and audio where you basically have a standard that’s kind of its own piece. I mean, like an open standard like OGG Theora or WebM or WebP, whatever these new technologies are for images and video, audio, that kind of thing. I think those things are going to cause the more interesting problems, because basically that’s kind of up to the browser maker what they want to support. It’s not really up to the W3C.

凯文：我认为这种方法实际上促使供应商在实施其中一些新工具的同时与W3C进行更多合作。 但是要把这些更多地推到W3C中，因为这是人们所知道的标准。 至少对于我们这些标准人士而言，这是安全，舒适的事情。 因此，至少在W3C中，我可以看到这种方法，从而使它们在供应商，浏览器制造商中更具杠杆作用。 现在，有趣的部分是诸如视频和音频之类的功能，在这些功能上，您基本上都有自己的标准。 我的意思是，就像OGG Theora或WebM或WebP这样的开放标准一样，无论这些新技术是用于图像还是视频，音频等等。 我认为这些事情会引起更多有趣的问题，因为基本上这取决于浏览器制造商所要支持的东西。 这并不是真正取决于W3C。

Louis: Well, there was actually some debate about whether or not the specifications should mandate codecs as part of the specification with respect to audio and to video. So I don’t actually know what the current status is. I imagine it doesn’t because there was too much push back from some of the browser makers. I think most notably Apple had no interest in supporting WebM and Firefox didn’t want to include H.264, so it’s kind of a standoff there.

路易斯：嗯，实际上，关于规范是否应将编解码器作为音频和视频规范的一部分，存在一些争论。 所以我实际上不知道当前状态是什么。 我想不是因为某些浏览器制造商的反击太多了。 我认为最值得注意的是，苹果公司对支持WebM毫无兴趣，而Firefox不想包含H.264，因此这是一个僵局。

Kevin: Yeah, it’s an interesting thing when you try to incorporate basically a different type of technology outside of that which is written, like any other type of media outside something that might be text like JavaScript, HTML, or CSS. Because a developer you have a lot more control over that because you write it yourself. Also as far as browser makers are concerned, like, that’s already an open standard. It already exists in the space. You can own it. So, to answer your question, I feel like it comes back to what I said in the beginning, which is I think this is W3C acknowledging that browsers want to move a lot faster than the W3C wants to, and so to do that they’re willing to basically submodule the specification. I mean, they already do that, right?

凯文：是的，当您尝试结合所编写的技术以外的其他类型的技术时，这是一件有趣的事情，就像JavaScript，HTML或CSS之类的文本之外的任何其他类型的媒体一样。 因为是开发人员，所以您可以自己控制更多的控制权。 就浏览器制造商而言，这已经是一个开放标准。 它已经存在于空间中。 您可以拥有它。 因此，要回答您的问题，我觉得它回到了我一开始所说的内容，这就是W3C承认浏览器想要比W3C想要快得多的移动速度，因此他们愿意基本上将规范子模块化。 我的意思是，他们已经这样做了，对吧？

Stephan: I like what Craig Butler wrote, though. He wrote an article on sitepoint.com, and he just kind of flatly says the W3C specifications are irrelevant and I don’t think we can disagree, right? I mean, they’re not going to stop you from editing features to your website, they’re not going to, because the browsers are going to have these features, now they may be different across the browsers but they’re not going to, their specifications aren’t going to set in stone what a browser implements.

斯蒂芬：我喜欢克雷格·巴特勒的著作。 他在sitepoint.com上写了一篇文章，只是断然地说W3C规范无关紧要，我认为我们不能不同意，对吗？ 我的意思是，它们并不会阻止您编辑网站功能，因为浏览器将具有这些功能，现在它们在浏览器中可能有所不同，但它们并不会，它们的规格不会一成不变地被浏览器实现。

Patrick: Yeah.

帕特里克：是的。

Louis: Yeah, it feels like a more documentation after the fact whereas in the past what the W3C specified was then what the browsers want to be built. Whereas now they’re sort of like, “Well, browsers all sort of agree on this so I guess we’ll call it a specification”.

路易斯：是的，在此之后感觉像是更多的文档，而在过去，W3C指定的就是要构建的浏览器。 现在，他们有点像，“好吧，浏览器对此都表示同意，所以我想我们将其称为规范”。

Stephan: Yeah.

斯蒂芬：是的。

Kevin: Yeah, it’s an interesting problem because, basically you can end up with what we had in the past, like two different versions of JavaScript. Was it VDScript, right? I think, or JScript, however you want to call it, and then Microsoft’s version. Then you had JavaScript. So, it’s an interesting thing, because as soon as you say the W3C specifications are irrelevant, you basically say that, “Hey, let’s move out of this cold war that we’ve been having for a long time pertaining to browsers and let’s just go all-out war again.” So, it’s like getting rid of the United Nations almost. I don’t mean to go political.

凯文：是的，这是一个有趣的问题，因为从根本上讲，您可以像过去两种不同JavaScript一样结束过去的工作。 是VDScript吗？ 我想还是JScript，但是您要先调用它，然后再调用Microsoft的版本。 然后，您有了JavaScript。 因此，这很有趣，因为一旦您说出W3C规格无关紧要，您基本上就说：“嘿，让我们摆脱长期以来与浏览器有关的冷战，再次发动全面战争。” 因此，这就像几乎要摆脱联合国。 我不是要政治。

Louis: Oh man, there’s so much that I want to dive in there with. But I’m going to hold back because this is not a show about international politics.

路易斯：哦，伙计，我想和很多人一起潜水。 但是我要阻止，因为这不是关于国际政治的表演。

Kevin: Yeah, let me bite my tongue on that one.

凯文：是的，让我咬一口。

Patrick: To me, this is garbage because what this means is that my Teach Yourself HTML4 in 24 Hours second edition book published by Sams.net Publishing on November 1, 1997, is going to be out of date as soon as this HTML5 thing happens. That’s what it means to me. This book was released when I was 12 and now it’s going to be out of date. So that, to me, is a shame.

帕特里克：对我来说，这是垃圾，因为这意味着1997年11月1日由Sams.net Publishing出版的《 24小时自学HTML4》第二版书将很快过时。 。 那就是对我的意义。 这本书在我12岁时发行，现在已经过时了。 因此，对我而言，这是一种耻辱。

Louis: I hate to break it to you Patrick but that book’s been out of date for well over a decade now.

路易斯：我讨厌把它给你，帕特里克，但那本书已经过时了十多年了。

Patrick: You just want me to buy SitePoint books.

帕特里克：您只希望我购买SitePoint图书。

Louis: No, all I’m saying is that… Well, that actually does come back into the point, right? I mean, the fact that there is now an official HTML5 – and it’s entirely true, you could have gone about building websites using HTML4 as your doc type and only using HTML4 features in your sites. But does anyone really do that anymore? I don’t think so. I think everyone’s using some features of these specs that are under development because the browsers all support them. There’s stuff that’s extremely well supported and with a stable implantation everyone agrees on it. So like Craig says in this blog post does it matter that the W3C won’t officially endorse this stuff until 2014? Not really to anyone to who’s a developer or a browser maker. So I don’t know who else they’re writing this for.

路易斯：不，我要说的是……嗯，实际上确实可以说对，对吗？ 我的意思是，事实是现在有了正式HTML5 –的确如此，您本可以使用HTML4作为文档类型并且仅在站点中使用HTML4功能来构建网站。 但是，还有人真的这样做了吗？ 我不这么认为。 我认为每个人都在使用这些规范的某些功能，这些功能正在开发中，因为所有浏览器都支持它们。 有些东西得到了很好的支持，并且经过稳定的植入，每个人都对此表示赞同。 因此，就像克雷格(Craig)在本博文中所说的那样，W3C直到2014年才正式认可这些东西是否重要？ 对于开发人员或浏览器制造商而言，并不是真的。 所以我不知道他们还在为谁写这个。

Patrick: Right. I don’t if we talked about or I just haven’t read about it. But the thought that the recommendations would not be final for HTML5 until 2022 was… Now they’re coming back with this 2014.

帕特里克：对。 如果我们谈论过，我不会，或者我只是未读过。 但是，有关建议直到2022年才最终成为HTML5的想法是……现在，他们又回到了2014年。

Louis: Well at least 2014 sounds plausible. 2022 was…

路易斯：至少在2014年听起来不错。 2022年……

Patrick: Yeah. At least it’s not a decade away. Half of the people who care about this might be dead by then.

帕特里克：是的。 至少距离现在还不到十年。 到那时，一半的人可能已经死了。

Louis: Yeah, 2022 we’ll all be using virtual reality sensory deprivation tanks that browse the internet or something.

路易斯：是的，2022年，我们所有人都将使用浏览互联网或其他内容的虚拟现实感官剥夺坦克。

Patrick: Yes, Google Glass. But HTML5, it’s coming people.

帕特里克：是的，谷歌眼镜。 但是HTML5即将到来。

Louis: All right.

路易斯：好的。

Patrick: Well, speaking of fancy HTML…

帕特里克：嗯，说到漂亮HTML ...

Louis: Segue?

路易斯：塞格？

Patrick: Myspace released a teaser video…

帕特里克： Myspace发布了预告片视频…

Louis: Oh, there we go.

路易斯：哦，我们去了。

Patrick: …for its upcoming design and the story I found this through was the Next Web by Harrison Webber. There’s nothing to play with. There’s nothing to test. You can’t log in. You can’t use it. But it’s just a two-minute video of what the new Myspace is going to look like. You can sign up to be notified when it will come out but that’s about it. When I watched the video it’s – videos are nice, actual implementation is hard. But from the video it looks like a very clean interface. It looks like a lot of things that have been learned from Facebook and Twitter and maybe changed to be different in appearance, a little more clean, like, a richer media Twitter or a less busy Facebook, so to speak.

帕特里克(Patrick)： …关于其即将到来的设计以及我从中发现的故事是哈里森·韦伯(Harrison Webber)的《下一个网络》。 没有什么可玩的。 没有要测试的东西。 您无法登录。无法使用。 但这只是两分钟的视频，介绍了新Myspace的外观。 您可以注册通知它何时发布，仅此而已。 当我观看视频时-视频很棒，实际的实现很困难。 但是从视频来看，它看起来像一个非常干净的界面。 看起来，很多东西都是从Facebook和Twitter那里学到的，并且外观上可能有所不同，看起来更加简洁，例如，媒体更丰富的Twitter或不那么忙碌的Facebook。

Louis: To me it looks like it takes a lot more from Google Plus in its approach than it does from Facebook or Twitter.

路易斯：在我看来，与从Facebook或Twitter相比，Google Plus的处理方式需要花费更多。

Patrick: Okay, now we’re just doing semantics. Okay? Don’t drop Google Plus on me. No, I’m just kidding. Yeah. I think that’s fair to say that Google Plus is cleaner than Facebook and so maybe they’re learning from Google Plus.

帕特里克：好的，现在我们正在做语义。 好的？ 不要对我放下Google Plus。 不，我只是在开玩笑。 是的 我认为可以说Google Plus比Facebook干净，因此也许他们正在向Google Plus学习。

Louis: But also just the size of the images and the way the images are sort of tiled is something that Google does and that Facebook doesn’t really do at all. Facebook still has that very linear view. They don’t do a lot of fancy stuff with layout. So do you know what struck me the most out of this video?

路易斯：但是，图像的大小以及图像的平铺方式也是Google要做的事情，而Facebook则根本不做。 Facebook仍然具有非常线性的观点。 他们不会在布局上做很多花哨的事情。 那么，您知道这部影片给我印象最深的地方吗？

Patrick: What?

帕特里克：什么？

Louis: Horizontal scrolling.

路易斯：水平滚动。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Louis: That’s not a thing. You can’t just do that.

路易斯：没关系。 你不能只是这样做。

Patrick: Myspace is breaking the law.

帕特里克： Myspace违反法律。

Kevin: Well, you’ve got to think…

凯文：嗯，你必须要想……

Patrick: They’re a renegade. Look out, rebel coming.

帕特里克：他们是叛徒。 提防，叛军来了。

Kevin: They’re thinking about Windows 8 here. They’re thinking about the new medium that everyone’s going to be on and about.

凯文：他们在这里考虑Windows 8。 他们正在考虑所有人都会使用的新媒体。

Patrick: Horizontal scrolling?

帕特里克：水平滚动？

Louis: 2022?

路易斯： 2022年？

Patrick: I didn’t know that was coming.

帕特里克：我不知道那会发生。

Kevin: Windows 8 man, I mean Windows has just defined it as the next thing by releasing Windows 8, right?

凯文： Windows 8的人，我的意思是Windows刚刚通过发布Windows 8将其定义为下一件事，对吗？

Louis: Horizontal scrolling?

路易斯：水平滚动？

Kevin: Yeah, or did they remove that?

凯文：是的，还是他们删除了？

Louis: Are your Word documents going to be sideways now?

路易斯：您的Word文档现在会偏斜吗？

Patrick: So once upon a time if you had horizontal scrolling that means you designed your website wrong.

帕特里克：所以从前，如果您进行水平滚动，则意味着您设计的网站是错误的。

Louis: Yeah, I mean this isn’t the case of it’s just too wide and there’s a little scrollbar that means it’s over flow. It’s the entire, or big chunks of the interface seem to be laid out left to right.

路易斯：是的，我的意思是不是这样，因为它太宽了，还有一个小的滚动条，它意味着流量很大。 这是接口的整个或大块似乎从左到右地布置。

Patrick: Yeah, you don’t scroll up and down, you scroll left to right, at least in the video. To see more updates, to see more photos, to see more activity, you go left to right, not up to down. Yeah, that goes against what people are taught about user experience.

帕特里克：是的，至少在视频中，您不需要上下滚动，而是从左向右滚动。 要查看更多更新，查看更多照片，查看更多活动，请从左到右而不是上下移动。 是的，这与人们对用户体验的了解背道而驰。

Louis: Yeah, I thought that was extremely disconcerting. I mean, I think the interface looks really pretty. I’m not sold on it 100% because I think that there’s actually a fair amount of complexity that was shown there and I think that Facebook can get away with that because people know their terminology. But if you’re trying to do something that’s targeted at everyone in the world you really want to make it really simple. It looked like there was a lot of stuff in it and the methods of interacting with photos were kind of unconventional. I know doing unconventional interactions can be cool. It’s like, “Oh, to do this you just circle your mouse around it three times and then it opens,” doing fancy interactions.

路易斯：是的，我认为这非常令人不安。 我的意思是，我认为界面看起来非常漂亮。 我没有100％出售它，因为我认为那里确实显示了相当多的复杂性，而且我认为Facebook可以避免这种情况，因为人们知道他们的术语。 但是，如果您要尝试针对全世界的每个人做某事，那么您真的想使其变得非常简单。 看起来其中有很多东西，并且与照片进行交互的方法有点非常规。 我知道进行非常规的互动会很酷。 就像，“哦，要做到这一点，您只需将鼠标绕着它圈三圈然后打开”，进行有趣的交互。

But I think that with the space of social networks at least where people are accustomed to mostly Facebook and Twitter and to a lesser extent Google Plus, that kind of single page scroll down, click on something to make it bigger, is really the safe approach and I’m not sure how successfully you can be breaking that mold. I’d be happy to be proved wrong if this takes off. One thing, though, I did find really interesting is that it looked like it was, for people who have a Myspace sort of fan page – I don’t know if that’s a thing or whether it’s on Myspace it’s just a regular account or how that works.

但我认为，至少在社交网络空间中，人们习惯于大多数是Facebook和Twitter，而在较小程度上，Google Plus则是这种单页向下滚动并单击以使其放大的东西，这确实是安全的方法而且我不确定您能否成功打破常规。 如果能解决的话，我很乐意被证明是错误的。 不过，我确实发现真正有趣的是，对于拥有Myspace粉丝页面的人来说，它看起来像是–我不知道这是问题还是在Myspace上，这只是一个普通帐户，或者这样可行。

Patrick: Right.

帕特里克：对。

Louis: But for artists or brands that use Myspace to promote it seemed like the built-in analytics tools and ways of interacting with fans were really interesting. I don’t know if you caught that in the video towards the end.

路易斯：但是对于使用Myspace进行宣传的艺术家或品牌来说，似乎内置的分析工具以及与粉丝互动的方式确实很有趣。 我不知道您是否在影片快结束时抓住了它。

Patrick: Yeah, I did catch that kind of preview of analytics for, I don’t know what functionality that is. I haven’t used Myspace in while, so maybe this is something new. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is where they’re helping you to identify your most influential fans, where the most fan activity is geographically, and so on and so forth. I think that looked pretty cool.

帕特里克(Patrick)：是的，我确实捕捉到了这种分析的预览，但我不知道这是什么功能。 我已经有一段时间没有使用Myspace了，所以也许这是新东西。 如果这是他们在帮助您确定最有影响力的粉丝，在地理位置上粉丝活动最多的地方等等，我就不会感到惊讶。 我认为这看起来很酷。

Louis: Yeah, that stuff looks really interesting because at the end of the day if they get brands and artists and musicians using the platform as their main point of contact with their fans then the fans will follow. To be fair, Facebook fan pages as a way of keeping in touch with artists or Twitter as a way of keeping in touch with artists is pretty limited, right? There’s not a lot of multimedia. You don’t really get much exposure to the music directly and Myspace has the potential to do a lot better at that.

路易斯：是的，这些东西看起来真的很有趣，因为最终，如果他们让品牌，艺术家和音乐家使用该平台作为与粉丝联系的主要联系点，那么粉丝就会紧随其后。 公平地讲，Facebook粉丝页面作为与艺术家保持联系的方式，或者Twitter作为与艺术家保持联系的方式非常有限，对吗？ 多媒体不是很多。 您实际上并没有直接接触音乐，而Myspace有潜力做得更好。

Patrick: Right. I have a feeling that you are not going to be happy if someone says, “Louis Simoneau is the man who was proven wrong by Myspace.” I have a feeling you will not be happy if you’re proven wrong.

帕特里克：对。 如果有人说：“路易斯·西蒙诺(Louis Simoneau)是被Myspace证明是错误的人，我会感到不高兴。” 如果您被证明是错误的，我有种感觉，您不会幸福。

Louis: Well, when you put it that way, no one wants to be the guy who was proven wrong by Myspace. All I’m saying is that with regards to user interface if you can do something really innovative and have it work and create a new user interface paradigm in some way, if you can make people scroll horizontally as a way to view their timeline that’s wonderful, because that means we have more options available to us as interactions right?

路易斯：恩，当你这样说的时候，没人想成为被Myspace证明是错误的人。 我要说的是，关于用户界面，如果您可以做一些真正创新的事情并使其工作并以某种方式创建新的用户界面范例，并且可以使人们水平滚动以查看他们的时间表，那真是太好了，因为这意味着我们可以通过互动获得更多选择，对吗？

Patrick: Yeah, we discussed the sale of Myspace to specific media back on episode 120 in July of 2011 and part of that deal was that Justin Timberlake became a co-owner, a move that I liked and still like, because it spoke to Myspace’s strengths at the time, which is really music and entertainment. They have this great music licensing. I don’t think a lot of people realize that is they did have good licenses in place with the labels, with the right people for music on Myspace, pre-Spotify, pre a lot of things where you could just listen to full albums on Myspace. They still have that and it’s always felt like their strength is in that music area. It’s almost like they hunkered down for a while to focus on that and when I see this video I think of that as them trying to again stake more of a mainstream claim. Not that music is not mainstream, but they were focusing on that for a while which was a good idea. But this feels like more of a play to get people to spend time on Myspace instead of Facebook, Twitter and whatnot. Even though they show clearly that you can import your Facebook friends and it’ll have those connection features, some of which they’ve already started integrating. Yeah, to me it feels like they’re trying to make a play back into that kind of generic social networking space that Facebook dominates and Google Plus is trying to make inroads in, and Twitter kind of continues to creep up with more functionality. So, yes, that was my observation.

帕特里克：是的，我们在2011年7月的第120集上讨论了将Myspace出售给特定媒体的问题，其中一部分是贾斯汀·汀布莱克(Justin Timberlake)成为共同所有人，这一举动我仍然喜欢并仍然喜欢，因为它与Myspace当时的优势，实际上是音乐和娱乐。 他们拥有出色的音乐许可。 我认为很多人都没有意识到他们的标签上确实有不错的许可证，在Myspace上有合适的音乐人，在Spotify之前，在很多事情上都可以收听整张专辑我的空间。 他们仍然有这种感觉，并且总是觉得自己的实力在那个音乐领域。 几乎就像他们弯腰一段时间专注于这一点，当我看到这段视频时，我想到了这一点，因为他们试图再次承担更多的主流主张。 并不是说音乐不是主流，而是他们一直专注于音乐，这是一个好主意。 但这更像是一种让人们在Myspace而不是Facebook，Twitter和诸如此类的东西上花费时间的游戏。 即使他们清楚地表明您可以导入您的Facebook朋友，并且它将具有这些连接功能，其中一些功能已经开始集成。 是的，对我来说，感觉就像他们正在尝试重现Facebook主导的那种通用社交网络空间，而Google Plus试图涉足这一领域，而Twitter则继续通过更多功能进行爬坡。 所以，是的，这就是我的观察。

Kevin: If I could put a word in here, I really feel like – I’m kind of being a jokester, but I feel like all the Apple Ping users are just going to flee to this thing. I don’t know. That’s just kind of my vote.

凯文：如果我可以在这里说一句话，我真的感觉像–我在开玩笑，但是我觉得所有Apple Ping用户都将逃避这个事情。 我不知道。 那只是我的投票。

Louis: Aw. All right, that’s a cheap date, but we’ll pay it.

路易斯：噢。 好吧，那是个便宜的约会，但我们会付钱。

Kevin: Okay.

凯文：好的。

Patrick: Ping, none of us really use Ping, right?

帕特里克： Ping，我们没人真正使用Ping，对吗？

Louis: Can we have a moment of silence for Ping?

路易斯：我们可以为平先生保持沉默吗？

Kevin: Yes, please. I shed a tear there.

凯文：是的，请。 我在那里流了眼泪。

Patrick: Because I was going to – who’s going to jokingly end this silence? I was waiting. Who’s going to be the one?

帕特里克：因为我要去-谁会开玩笑地结束这种沉默？ 我在等待。 谁会成为那个？

Louis: All right, well I think on that note it’s a perfect time to dive into our host spotlights for this week. Who’s got something awesome on the internet that they want share? I’m sure Patrick does.

路易斯：好的，我认为在此笔记上，是本周深入探讨我们的主持人聚光灯的最佳时机。 谁想在互联网上分享一些很棒的东西？ 我敢肯定，帕特里克做到了。

Patrick: Well I appreciate the vote of confidence. I’ll do my best. So my spotlight is the Facebook page for Game Master Hour, now if you were a Nintendo fan in the 80’s and early 90s and especially if you had a Nintendo Power subscription, you were familiar with this guy, Howard Philips. He was Nintendo’s original game master. That was his title. He played all the games. He knew how they all worked. He advised the company on what games to release in the U.S. and he was Howard in the popular Howard & Nester cartoons that were in Nintendo Power. So, his Facebook page that I just learned about recently contains all these cool kind of nostalgic memories, behind the scenes info, even game prototypes and what they looked like. Like games that weren’t released that he still has, like unlabeled cartridges and what not and it’s just this really crazy journey to the past of, kind of more of the NES but also some SNES days. If you were a part of that time and you played those systems it’s really fun to read through all this information and to see the pictures also.

帕特里克：嗯，我感谢信任票。 我将尽我所能。 因此，我的关注点是Game Master Hour的Facebook页面，现在，如果您是80年代和90年代初的任天堂粉丝，尤其是如果您有Nintendo Power订阅，您对这个人Howard Philips就会很熟悉。 他是任天堂的原始游戏大师。 那是他的头衔。 他参加了所有比赛。 他知道他们都是如何工作的。 他为公司提供了在美国发行哪些游戏的建议，并曾在任天堂Power发行的Howard＆Nester漫画中成为Howard。 因此，我最近刚刚了解的他的Facebook页面包含所有这些酷酷的怀旧回忆，幕后信息，甚至游戏原型以及它们的外观。 就像他还没有发行的游戏一样，比如未贴标签的墨盒，还有没有贴上标签的墨盒，这只是对过去的一次疯狂的旅程，更多的是NES，还有一些SNES的日子。 如果您是那段时间的一部分，并且玩过这些系统，那么通读所有这些信息并同时查看图片真的很有趣。

Kevin: Yeah, this is actually really, really awesome.

凯文：是的，这真的非常非常棒。

Patrick: Yes, I concur.

帕特里克：是的，我同意。

Kevin: I have a second to this motion.

凯文：我对此动议有二分。

Louis: Oh, awesome. So my spotlight this week is something that I’m fairly certain that every one of our listeners has already seen. But I just want to cover my bases just in case because it’s that bad ass. Can we say bad ass? Do we have the clean tag on iTunes or something? I don’t even know what qualifies as…

路易：太棒了。 因此，本周我的焦点是我可以肯定的是，我们每个听众都已经看过。 但是我只是想掩盖我的基地，以防万一，因为那是坏驴子。 我们可以说坏屁股吗？ iTunes上有干净的标签吗？ 我什至不知道什么才算是……

Patrick: You were talking about the donkey, right?

帕特里克：您在谈论驴子，对吗？

Louis: Yeah, exactly.

路易斯：是的，确实如此。

Patrick: Okay, so it’s clean. It’s clean.

帕特里克：好的，很干净。 很干净

Louis: It’s an ill link. Yeah, so it’s a particular XKCD comic strip from I think last week, last Friday or Wednesday. Its simply called “Click and Drag”. I don’t want to spoil it so just if you haven’t seen it yet go check it out, and “Click and Drag”. I apologize if you get RSI you can’t blame them.

路易斯：这是一个不对劲的环节。 是的，所以这是我认为上周，上周五或周三的特别XKCD漫画。 它简称为“单击并拖动”。 我不想破坏它，即使您还没有看到它，也要去检查一下，然后单击“拖动”。 抱歉，如果您获得RSI，就不能怪他们。

Patrick: If you get what?

帕特里克：如果得到什么？

Louis: RSI.

路易斯： RSI。

Patrick: RSI? What’s that abbreviation for?

帕特里克： RSI？ 该缩写是什么意思？

Louis: Repetitive Strain Injury.

路易斯：重复性劳损。

Patrick: There we go, okay. I was thinking carpal tunnel syndrome but that’s not RSI.

帕特里克：好的，走了。 我当时在想腕管综合症，但那不是RSI。

Stephan: How big is this thing?

史蒂芬：这东西有多大？

Patrick: That’s what I was wondering. We don’t have to give it away, but when do you stop?

帕特里克：这就是我想知道的。 我们不必放弃它，但是什么时候停止？

Louis: I think someone said that…

路易斯：我想有人说过……

Kevin: It’s an algorithm that draws random objects forever, like, that would be awesome.

凯文：这是一种永远绘制随机对象的算法，就像那样棒。

Louis: Yeah, I know.

路易斯：是的，我知道。

Patrick: That would be devious.

帕特里克：那将是曲折的。

Stephan: That would.

史蒂芬：那会。

Louis: Have you guys seen this comic?

路易斯：你们看过这部漫画吗？

Kevin: I have not.

凯文：我没有。

Patrick: I have, yes.

帕特里克：我有，是的。

Stephan: I saw it. I thought it was awesome.

史蒂芬：我看到了。 我以为真棒。

Louis: So it measures in at 165,888 by 79,872 pixels, or 1.3 terapixels. The full comic would fit on 4,212 iPad screens arranged in an 81 x 52 grid.

路易斯：所以它的尺寸为165,888 x 79,872像素，即1.3兆像素。 完整的喜剧片可以安装在以81 x 52网格排列的4,212个iPad屏幕上。

Patrick: So is he selling posters of this?

帕特里克：那他在卖海报吗？

Louis: I think it would be something like – I can’t remember. Someone explained what the actual, like, if it was printed to scale how big it would be.

路易斯：我想那会是–我不记得了。 有人解释了实际打印后的尺寸，例如实际尺寸。

Kevin: I’m going to use this image as my encryption for my server whitewall.

凯文：我将使用此图像作为服务器白墙的加密。

Patrick: That sounds wrong. The research department is working on this. That’s why we’re paused right now.

帕特里克：听起来错了。 研究部门正在对此进行研究。 这就是为什么我们现在暂停。

Kevin: I found a power plant. I’ve gone a ways and I’ve found a power plant.

凯文：我找到了一座发电厂。 我走了一条路，找到了电厂。

Louis: Someone here is saying that printed at 300 dpi it would be 46 feet wide.

路易斯：这里有人说，以300 dpi的速度打印时将达到46英尺宽。

Patrick: Okay.

帕特里克：好的。

Louis: So it’s pretty huge. It’s massive.

路易斯：所以它很大。 很大

Kevin: Found a whale.

凯文：发现了一条鲸鱼。

Patrick: Yeah, Kevin’s accomplishments, it’s like medals. He’s unlocked a whale. Oh, my gosh. You made it, power plant unlocked.

帕特里克：是的，凯文的成就，就像奖牌一样。 他解开了一条鲸鱼。 天啊。 您做到了，发电厂已解​​锁。

Kevin: There’s something shooting a long beam into the sky after the whale, and it doesn’t have an end. It’s like I’m going into outer-space.

凯文：鲸鱼后有什么东西向天空发射长长的光束，并且没有尽头。 就像我要进入太空一样。

Patrick: You know what the next episode of the podcast will be? Instead of an interview, we’re going to have Kevin do a walkthrough of this graphic. He’s going to just walk you through the whole thing.

帕特里克：您知道播客的下一集将是什么？ 而不是采访，我们将让Kevin演练此图。 他将带领您完成整个过程。

Louis: All right, now we’ve lost Kevin. So, maybe Stephen should go with the next spotlight.

路易斯：好吧，现在我们失去了凯文。 因此，也许斯蒂芬应该继续关注下一个焦点。

Stephan: Mine is this photo series by Ingledow Art Photography. It’s essentially a photo series that he made of him and his daughter, and it’s called, “World’s Best Father”. Most people are going to probably find the images just wrong, but I think it’s hilarious. I’m sure somebody’s offended by this, but I think it’s a great way and I think his daughter will love it when she gets older just because it’s so funny. It’s probably, it looks like 25 images, and he took some time to put into these. So, he’s got things where he’s practicing to be a ballerina.

史蒂芬：我的这张照片是英格莱多艺术摄影的照片系列。 从本质上讲，这是他由他和他的女儿所制作的照片系列，被称为“世界上最好的父亲”。 大多数人可能会发现这些图像是错误的，但我认为这很有趣。 我敢肯定有人对此感到冒犯，但我认为这是一个好方法，我认为他的女儿长大后会爱上它，因为这很有趣。 It's probably, it looks like 25 images, and he took some time to put into these. So, he's got things where he's practicing to be a ballerina.

Patrick: Yeah, this is pretty cute.

Patrick: Yeah, this is pretty cute.

Louis: They are very cute.

Louis: They are very cute.

Stephan: It’s just, I think it’s funny. He took that much time to make something for probably not – he’s not going to make any money off this.

Stephan: It's just, I think it's funny. He took that much time to make something for probably not – he's not going to make any money off this.

Patrick: He’s going to make social media money, Stephen, and that is as good as gold.

Patrick: He's going to make social media money, Stephen, and that is as good as gold.

Stephan: Is that priceless?

Stephan: Is that priceless?

Patrick: Yes, priceless.

Patrick: Yes, priceless.

Louis: I can hear Kevin still clicking and dragging.

Louis: I can hear Kevin still clicking and dragging.

Kevin: I found the tractor.

Kevin: I found the tractor.

Patrick: So, what’s your spotlight Kevin, and it can’t be that comic or a thing inside the comic?

Patrick: So, what's your spotlight Kevin, and it can't be that comic or a thing inside the comic?

Kevin: So, my spotlight is the tractor at pixel 25,013.

Kevin: So, my spotlight is the tractor at pixel 25,013.

Patrick: Oh, that’s too – that’s like jumping the shark here.

Patrick: Oh, that's too – that's like jumping the shark here.

Kevin: So I actually have something on GitHub.

Kevin: So I actually have something on GitHub.

Patrick: Okay.

帕特里克：好的。

Kevin: I was meaning to do basically on one of my projects, I kind of cheat because what I’m working on I can use in the show. So, I needed to do basically an iFrame proxy. So, I found this project on GitHub. I haven’t really implemented it yet, but there aren’t many issues and it’s been starred by enough people to where I feel like it’s fairly stable and secure. Again, I haven’t used it yet but it was one of those things like, I’m creating an embed using JavaScript for basically a web app. I need to be able to dynamically resize the iFrame based on if you hit Submit within a form and that form, say, throws a bunch of errors, well that error changes the heights and dimensions of the actual site that’s being embedded so that needs to be reflected to the end user within the parent domain. So, basically what you can do with an iFrame proxy is… Well, the way iFrames work in the first place, not to get too technical, is you have a domain, and that domain can interact with any iFrame that uses the same domain. So what happens is, if you embed an iFrame to another website, Wufoo is a great example of this… So let’s say you embed an iFrame that’s Wufoo into your website. Well, Wufoo isn’t the same domain as your website, so Wufoo can’t communicate with your website. But if Wufoo implements an iFrame that points to your website, then the iFrame within Wufoo uses the same domain as your website so those two iFrames can communicate. Since parent iFrames can communicate to their children, you can send it basically from your top level domain to Wufoo, and then Wufoo can send it to its iFrame of your website again. Then that website, which is your website, if this isn’t too confusing, sends it back over to the top level site because it’s the same domain. Anyway, so that’s iFrame proxy stuff.

Kevin: I was meaning to do basically on one of my projects, I kind of cheat because what I'm working on I can use in the show. So, I needed to do basically an iFrame proxy. So, I found this project on GitHub. I haven't really implemented it yet, but there aren't many issues and it's been starred by enough people to where I feel like it's fairly stable and secure. Again, I haven't used it yet but it was one of those things like, I'm creating an embed using JavaScript for basically a web app. I need to be able to dynamically resize the iFrame based on if you hit Submit within a form and that form, say, throws a bunch of errors, well that error changes the heights and dimensions of the actual site that's being embedded so that needs to be reflected to the end user within the parent domain. So, basically what you can do with an iFrame proxy is… Well, the way iFrames work in the first place, not to get too technical, is you have a domain, and that domain can interact with any iFrame that uses the same domain. So what happens is, if you embed an iFrame to another website, Wufoo is a great example of this… So let's say you embed an iFrame that's Wufoo into your website. Well, Wufoo isn't the same domain as your website, so Wufoo can't communicate with your website. But if Wufoo implements an iFrame that points to your website, then the iFrame within Wufoo uses the same domain as your website so those two iFrames can communicate. Since parent iFrames can communicate to their children, you can send it basically from your top level domain to Wufoo, and then Wufoo can send it to its iFrame of your website again. Then that website, which is your website, if this isn't too confusing, sends it back over to the top level site because it's the same domain. Anyway, so that's iFrame proxy stuff.

Louis: So you’re saying it’s basically like Inception.

Louis: So you're saying it's basically like Inception.

Kevin: Yes, absolutely. So if you could imagine your browser having a dream within a dream, this is what Inception is. It’s called Porthole.

凯文：是的，绝对。 So if you could imagine your browser having a dream within a dream, this is what Inception is. It's called Porthole.

Louis: All right, we will check links to that, obviously as well as all of our other spotlights and all the stories we’ve discussed on our website.

Louis: All right, we will check links to that, obviously as well as all of our other spotlights and all the stories we've discussed on our website.

Patrick: I would like to point out one thing about the spotlights, and that is that Kevin was the only one who did a development- related spotlight, so I feel like I’ve successfully corrupted the rest of you to join me in the off-top spotlight area. Kevin was the only one…

Patrick: I would like to point out one thing about the spotlights, and that is that Kevin was the only one who did a development- related spotlight, so I feel like I've successfully corrupted the rest of you to join me in the off-top spotlight area. Kevin was the only one…

Kevin: I’m resilient.

Kevin: I'm resilient.

Patrick: …who maintained the topic, so congratulations, Kevin. Welcome aboard the rest of you.

Patrick: …who maintained the topic, so congratulations, Kevin. Welcome aboard the rest of you.

Louis: It’s good to be here, Patrick.

Louis: It's good to be here, Patrick.

Kevin: I found an oil drill by the way.

Kevin: I found an oil drill by the way.

Stephan: Oh, my God.

Stephan: Oh, my God.

Patrick: But meanwhile, I don’t know if he gets full credit because he spent the rest of the spotlight playing with the comic. So, anyway, it’s been a fun show.

Patrick: But meanwhile, I don't know if he gets full credit because he spent the rest of the spotlight playing with the comic. So, anyway, it's been a fun show.

Louis: It’s been a good show. All right, so who are we and why are we here?

Louis: It's been a good show. All right, so who are we and why are we here?

Kevin: Oh, thank you. I am Kevin Dees. You can find me at kevindees.cc, and @KevinDees on Twitter, and right now you can find me at xkcd.com. 1110.

Kevin: Oh, thank you. I am Kevin Dees. You can find me at kevindees.cc , and @KevinDees on Twitter, and right now you can find me at xkcd.com. 1110.

Patrick: Yes. I’m Patrick O’Keefe of the iFroggy Network. I blog at managingcommunities.com, on Twitter @iFroggy, I-F-R-O-G-G-Y.

帕特里克：是的。 I'm Patrick O'Keefe of the iFroggy Network. I blog at managingcommunities.com , on Twitter @iFroggy , IFROGGY.

Stephan: I’m Stephen Segraves. You can find me at badice.com or on Twitter @SSegraves.

Stephan: I'm Stephen Segraves. You can find me at badice.com or on Twitter @SSegraves .

Louis: I’m Louis Simoneau. You can find me on Twitter @RSSaddict. You can also find SitePoint on Twitter @SitePointdotcom. That’s SitePoint D-O-T-C-O-M. If you want to find the podcast on the web, go to sitepoint.com/podcast all of our past episodes are there, your can leave a comment, links to all of the stories and spotlights we discussed during the show and you can find a full transcript of the show as well. If you want to email us, the address is podcast@sitepoint.com and of course you can find us on iTunes as well. Bye for now, and thanks for listening.

Louis: I'm Louis Simoneau. You can find me on Twitter @RSSaddict . You can also find SitePoint on Twitter @SitePointdotcom . That's SitePoint DOTCOM. If you want to find the podcast on the web, go to sitepoint.com/podcast all of our past episodes are there, your can leave a comment, links to all of the stories and spotlights we discussed during the show and you can find a full transcript of the show as well. If you want to email us, the address is podcast@sitepoint.com and of course you can find us on iTunes as well. Bye for now, and thanks for listening.

Kevin: I made it to the end by the way..

Kevin: I made it to the end by the way..

Produced by Karn Broad.

Produced by Karn Broad.

Audio Transcription by SpeechPad.

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Theme music by Mike Mella.

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