alex网络

In this episode of the Versioning Show, Tim and David are joined by Alex Walker, SitePoint’s Design & UX editor and manager of design and front-end development. They discuss writing popular articles, pushing web technologies to the limit, tips for designers looking for a web career … and cicadas, talking clocks, and TV shows.

在Versioning Show的这一集中，Tim和David和SitePoint的Design＆UX编辑器以及设计和前端开发经理Alex Walker一起加入了会议。 他们讨论撰写热门文章，将网络技术推向极限，为寻找网络职业的设计师提供提示……以及蝉鸣，有声时钟和电视节目。

显示笔记 (Show Notes)

• Alex Walker on Twitter: @alexmwalker

  Twitter上的Alex Walker： @alexmwalker

• Alex’s articles on SitePoint

  亚历克斯在SitePoint上的文章

• Sausage

  香肠

• The Talking Clock: Birth of the Voice-based UI

  会说话的时钟：基于语音的UI的诞生

• The Cicada Principle and Why It Matters to Web Designers

  蝉原理及其对网页设计师的重要性

• If Hemingway Wrote JavaScript

  如果海明威写了JavaScript

• SitePoint Design newsletter

  SitePoint设计新闻稿

• More Twitter links: @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom

  更多Twitter链接： @mdavidgreen | @tevko | @versioningshow | @sitepointdotcom

成绩单 (Transcript)

Tim: 蒂姆：

Hey, what’s up everybody, this is Tim Evko …

嘿，大家好，我是Tim Evko……

David: 大卫：

… and this is M. David Green …

…这是大卫·格林(M. David Green)…

Tim: 蒂姆：

… and you’re listening to episode number three of the Versioning Podcast. This is a place where we sit down every two weeks to discuss the industry of the web from development to design — with some of the people making it happen today and planning where it’s headed in the next version.

……您正在收听Versioning Podcast的第三集。 在这里，我们每两周开会一次，讨论从开发到设计的网络行业-一些人使之成为现实，并计划下一版的发展方向。

David: 大卫：

In this episode, we’re going to be talking with Alex Walker, who is a designer and site manager for SitePoint — and, according to his bio, he’s been doing cruel and unusual things to CSS since 2001.

在本集中，我们将与SitePoint的设计师兼站点经理Alex Walker进行交流-根据他的生平，自2001年以来，他一直在对CSS进行残酷而异常的工作。

Tim: 蒂姆：

On the heels of that, we have a question that we try to ask all of our guests, which is, In your current career, what version are you, and why?

紧接着，我们遇到一个问题，我们试图问所有的客人，即您目前的职业是什么版本，为什么？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

I am probably 3.0, I think. Well, actually, if you talk about my entire career, I actually go back to printing. I was in the print trade. So if you wanted to build those in, I would probably be more like 4.0. But in terms of the internet and technology kind of stuff, I think the first part was, I was webmaster at Sausage. So that was when people used to have — I actually still miss that email address, webmaster@sausage … my first serious email address. So I’d like to have that one back if I could, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

我想我大概是3.0。 好吧，实际上，如果您谈论我的整个职业，我实际上会回到印刷领域。 我当时从事印刷业。 因此，如果您希望将其内置，则可能会更像4.0。 但是从互联网和技术方面来说，我认为第一部分是我是Sausage的网站管理员。 那就是人们过去拥有的时间-我实际上仍然想念那个电子邮件地址，webmaster @ sausage…我的第一个重要电子邮件地址。 因此，我希望能再找回那个，但我认为这不会发生。

But that was a real learning experience. I spent a long time dealing with code for the first time, after being more from a design background.

但这是一次真正的学习经历。 从设计背景开始，我花了很长时间第一次处理代码。

So, that was a jump up. And then, the start of SitePoint was a lot of dealing with clients and that kind of stuff, going to client meetings, also building the site itself. And I think version three as being — I’m more of an editor and a writer these days.

因此，这是一个跳跃。 然后，SitePoint的开始是与客户打交道，并进行诸如此类的事情，例如参加客户会议，建设网站本身。 我认为第三版是-我现在更像是编辑和作家。

I write a new piece every week, and I deal with the work of other people for the site, where we edit and set up and negotiate content. So, I guess I’m 3.0 at the moment.

我每周写一篇新文章，并负责网站其他人员的工作，我们在网站上编辑，设置和协商内容。 所以，我想我现在是3.0。

David [2:13]: 大卫[2:13] ：

I can see you’re a very prolific writer for the site as well. And you’ve been writing from the very beginning of SitePoint, haven’t you?

我可以看到您也是该网站的多产作家。 而且您从SitePoint的开始就一直在写作，不是吗？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

I think my first article is 2002 or 2003. Not quite from the beginning. Kevin Yank was one of the really early writers for us; we’ve still got some of his books on the site. And early on, I was [writing] maybe an article every six months, and then there was a period from around 2004 through to about 2010 where I did a monthly newsletter.

我认为我的第一篇文章是2002或2003。 凯文·扬克 ( Kevin Yank)是我们真正早期的作家之一。 我们的网站上仍然有他的一些书。 早些时候，我每六个月写一次文章，然后从2004年到2010年这段时间里，我每月做一次新闻通讯。

And I remember getting a bit panicky every month thinking, O no, I've got to think up 12 ideas to write about this year. How will I ever do it? And for the last two years, I’ve been writing a piece every week that sort of sits on the top of the Design newsletter.

而且我记得每个月都会有些慌张的想法， 哦，不，我有吗？ 想出了今年要写的12个想法。 我将如何做？ 在过去的两年中，我每周都会写一篇文章，放在设计时事通讯的顶部。

And it’s strange. I’ve heard people say it before — that it’s easier to write often than it is to write occasionally, and that definitely is the case. I remember thinking, I’m gonna be out of ideas completely in six months, and I’ve still got a pretty good backlog of things that I can write about.

这很奇怪。 我以前听人说过-经常写比偶尔写要容易，而且确实是这样。 我记得当时在想，六个月后我将完全没有想法，而我仍然可以积back很多积write的事情。

And it’s amazing: even when I’ve got things lined up, something happens during the week or something pops up that we’re doing. Or someone writes about something that spurs … or even I might just be watching the History Channel or Antiques Roadshow or something like that, and there’ll be something on there that I’ll relate to what we do.

真是太神奇了：即使我已经整理好一切，一周中还是会发生某些事情，或者我们正在做的事情突然出现。 或有人写一些刺激性的东西……甚至我可能只是在观看历史频道或古董路演之类的东西，并且在那儿我会与我们所做的事情相关。

And it will spur me off in a direction, and there you go. It’s been easier than I thought, but hopefully that won’t stop. I still always feel like there’s gotta be a month out there where I just kind of hit a wall, and it’s like, I’ve got no words left to say.

它会激励我朝一个方向前进，然后您就可以走了。 它比我想象的要容易，但是希望不会停止。 我仍然总是觉得好像有一个月的时间我只是碰壁，就像， 我无话可说。

David: 大卫：

Given the way that you write, and the creative approaches that you take, it doesn’t feel like you’re ever going to run out of ideas. Because you always have a different twist on things. I’m curious: you started writing mostly technical articles, and then you switched into more design-oriented articles.

考虑到您的写作方式和所采用的创造性方法，就好像您永远不会耗尽创意。 因为你总是对事物有不同的看法。 我很好奇：您开始主要撰写技术文章，然后又转向了更多的面向设计的文章。

Alex [4:03]: 亚历克斯[4:03] ：

I think for the newsletter that I used to do five or ten years ago, I was definitely more interested in CSS, and I think I did some pretty interesting stuff. But it requires a lot of research, and a lot of testing, and reading specs. And to do one of those a month isn’t too hard, but the work that goes on behind that — I don’t think you can do it every week, particularly something like CSS. You can reiterate things you’ve done before. But to come up with new ideas, and to speak about something interesting from a different angle, I’ve found it’s been much easier just to sit there, read stuff.

我认为对于我过去五，十年前的时事通讯，我绝对对CSS更加感兴趣，而且我认为我做了一些非常有趣的事情。 但这需要大量研究，大量测试和阅读规格。 而且每个月要做其中的一件事情并不难，但是接下来要做的工作-我认为您不可能每周都能做到，尤其是CSS之类的东西。 您可以重申以前做过的事情。 但是，要想出新主意，并从不同角度谈论有趣的事情，我发现坐在那里阅读东西要容易得多。

I’ve got a Trello board that I can pull up on my phone. And I’ll be watching TV, and someone will say something and I’ll go, O my God!

我有一个Trello板，可以拉起手机。 我会看电视，有人说些什么，我走了， 我的天哪！

My partner will turn around to me and just nod at me sometimes and go, Newsletter?

我的伴侣会转过身来，有时只是对我点头，然后走， 时事通讯？

And I’ll go, Yep, newsletter. Because we’ll just see something on the TV at that moment. And she knows that — I don’t know whether there’s a light globe that appears over my head. But maybe I sit forward or stand up a bit straighter or something.

我会去的，通讯。 因为那时候我们只会在电视上看到一些东西。 她知道-我不知道我头顶上是否有一个灯罩。 但是也许我向前坐或者站得更直一些。

As I mentioned before, there’s a show called Antiques Roadshow, which is an English show that talks about antiques and those kind of things. But I’ve had articles that I’ve written that I’ve pulled off there on things like the talking clock that you ring up.

正如我之前提到的，有一个名为古董路演的节目，这是一个英语节目，谈论古董和类似的东西。 但是我已经写了几篇关于诸如你打电话的座钟之类的文章 。

There was a guy that invented a copying machine in 1780. This was like a walnut table with a roller, and he (a businessman) would write all his stuff out, and he had a wetting agent, and other paper, and he could roll the letter through and it would make a copy out the other side.

有一个人在1780年发明了一台复印机。这就像带滚轮的胡桃木桌子，他(商人)将所有东西都写出来，有了润湿剂和其他纸张，他就可以滚动信通过，它将使另一面副本。

So, copying is one of the key things that our industry is built around. So many issues revolve around digital rights management and intellectual property, and you think, where does that start? We’re talking about the 1780s, and that’s the first time we’ve got the idea of being able to copy something so accurately.

因此，复制是我们行业赖以生存的关键内容之一。 如此多的问题与数字版权管理和知识产权有关，您认为这是从哪里开始的？ 我们谈论的是1780年代，这是我们第一次有了能够如此精确地复制某些东西的想法。

David [6:13]: 大卫[6:13] ：

What of the things you’ve written really stands out for you?

您写的什么东西真正对您来说很突出？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

I think the article The Cicada Principle and Why It Matters to Web Designers was one of those ones that blew up and got picked up on Hacker News and a few of the big sources — Slashdot. It was probably my ultimate article, because I always like to blend science and history with the design stuff — that’s kind of my thing. I was always the geeky one of my arty friends, and the arty one of my geeky friends, so it’s that kind of blend — I think that’s what I’m good at in particular. I don’t think I’m very good at either of those things, but the blend is something that I can do.

我认为，文章《蝉原理及其对网页设计师的重要性》是其中的一则，引起轰动，并在Hacker News和一些重要消息来源-Slashdot上得到了好评。 这可能是我的终极文章，因为我一直喜欢将科学和历史与设计材料融合在一起-这就是我的事。 我一直是我的好朋友之一，也是我的好朋友之一，所以这是一种融合-我认为我特别擅长。 我认为我在这些方面都不擅长，但是融合是我可以做的。

I wrote The Cicada Principle article about four years ago, that had been rolling around in my head. I think I saw a History Channel show on Cicadas — the way that they tunnel into the ground for a long time, and then come up and breed, overwhelm the environment with the amount of cicadas that come out simultaneously, and then disappear again.

大约四年前，我写了《蝉原理》(Cicada Principle)一文，当时一直在我脑海中徘徊。 我想我在蝉上看到了一个历史频道的节目-他们长时间潜入地下，然后上升繁殖，淹没了环境，同时发出大量蝉，然后又消失了。

And the weird thing is, with some of these species, it was 13 years and 17 years. They were prime numbers, and no one could figure out what the reason for this really strange number was. They would just emerge at this 13 year — right within an hour of each other — emerge from the ground. And they eventually figured out that it was because the things that eat cicadas — things like lizards and snakes — these things tend to be on boom-and-bust cycles of maybe four years or six years. And if you try to line up six-year boom-and-bust cycles — say with a snake or a bird or something like that — it takes a long time for that pattern to line up on a 17-year crossover.

奇怪的是，对于其中一些物种来说，分别是13岁和17岁。 他们是质数，没有人知道这个真正奇怪的数字是什么原因。 它们只是在这13年中出现-彼此之间相隔一个小时-从地面出现。 他们最终发现，这是因为吃蝉的东西-例如蜥蜴和蛇-这些东西往往要经历四到六年的兴衰周期。 而且，如果您尝试排列六年的繁荣与萧条周期(比如说蛇，鸟或类似的东西)，则这种模式需要很长时间才能排列成17年的交叉点。

So, this idea of these numbers being really good for breaking patterns, I remember thinking that means something. I don’t know what it is, but it means something. Eventually I was working with multi-layered patterns with tiling backgrounds at one stage. And this idea of things not lining up is exactly what you want in a background that you don’t want to repeat.

因此，我认为这些数字确实对打破格局很有用，我记得当时我认为这意味着某种意义。 我不知道这是什么，但这意味着什么。 最终，我在一个阶段使用了带有拼贴背景的多层图案。 而且，这种事情不会排队的想法正是您在不想重复的背景下想要的。

So, using that idea of overlapping prime numbers on the actual widths of the tiles, you start to get these really crazy things happening. So you can get thousands of pixels going sideways with these multi-layered tiles that don’t ever repeat — or they do actually repeat, but you get amazing math happening when you start to get these numbers interacting with each other.

因此，使用在瓦片的实际宽度上重叠质数的想法，您开始发现发生了这些非常疯狂的事情。 因此，您可以使用这些永远不会重复的多层切片来获得成千上万的像素，或者它们实际上确实在重复，但是当您开始让这些数字相互交互时，就会发生惊人的数学运算。

So, that was something there when I wrote it, and I kind of started working through it and doing the math. And when it started to emerge in front of me, I was checking with people, and saying, Wow, am I wrong, or is this pretty amazing? And people were sort of standing back from their chairs and going, No, no, that can’t be right.

因此，当我编写它时就已经有了东西，然后我便开始研究它并进行数学运算。 当它开始出现在我眼前时，我正在与人打交道，然后说， 哇，我错了，还是这太神奇了？ 人们有点从椅子上站起来，走了， 不，不，那是不对的。

But, yeah, that went amazingly well. It just took off all over the internet. It had been something that had been possible for a long time, and no one had really quite noticed that it was something you could do. So, yeah, it kind of still stands out in my mind, for sure.

但是，是的，效果非常好。 它刚刚遍及整个互联网。 这已经有很长时间了，而且没有人真正注意到这是您可以做的事情。 所以，是的，肯定在我的脑海中仍然很突出。

Tim [9:36]: 蒂姆[9:36] ：

That’s a really cool breakthrough to have, especially in one’s career — when you know there’s something there, and you’re the one to just look and say, Hey, wait a second, if we just put this thing with this thing …

这是一个非常酷的突破，尤其是在一个人的职业生涯中—当您知道那里有些东西，而您只是看一下然后说， 嘿，请稍等，如果我们将这个东西与这个东西放在一起……

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Sometimes things like SVG come along, and these are new things, so there’s lots of new directions. But yeah, to find something inside the stuff we’ve been using for a long time that was useful was kind of a nice moment.

有时会出现诸如SVG之类的东西，而这些都是新事物，因此有许多新的方向。 但是，是的，在我们长期使用的东西中找到有用的东西是个不错的时刻。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. So you mentioned earlier that you transitioned from the print industry into the web industry. Do you want to speak to how you made that transition, and the technical skills you acquired to be able to work in that different space?

是的，当然。 因此，您前面提到过您从印刷业过渡到了网络业。 您想谈谈您如何进行过渡，以及要获得的技能才能在不同的领域工作吗？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Yeah. I actually was an apprentice at 17 in a business area — or an apprenticeship area — called graphic reproduction. It was part of the magazine production process. It was also part of the newspaper business as well.

是的 我实际上是17岁时在称为图形复制的业务领域(即学徒领域)的学徒。 这是杂志生产过程的一部分。 它也是报纸业务的一部分。

And when I started, this was all film based. We used paint brushes, and Rubylith, with this peelable sort of masking substance that we used — which is pretty much like the Quick Mask you use in Photoshop — this kind of red, peelable thing is kind of an analogy to what they do in Photoshop today even. And we were constructing magazine covers by overlapping and exposing film on top of other film.

当我开始的时候，这全都是基于电影的。 我们使用了画笔和Rubylith，并使用了这种可剥离的遮罩物质，这与您在Photoshop中使用的“快速蒙版”非常相似，这种红色的，可剥离的东西类似于它们在Photoshop中所做的事情今天甚至。 我们通过将胶片重叠并曝光在其他胶片之上来构造杂志封面。

Over the years (this was back in the ’80s), Macintoshes started coming into the whole thing, so I started to get trained up on that. The scanners that we used at that stage were the size of cars. So those things spun, and they had a drum, and you had to oil down these clear drums. It’s amazing what we can do now just with a stupid little thing on a desk [chuckles] … and we spent hours doing this kind of stuff.

多年来(这可以追溯到80年代)，Macintoshes开始涉足整个领域，因此我开始接受有关此方面的培训。 我们在那个阶段使用的扫描仪是汽车的大小。 所以那些东西旋转了，它们有了一个鼓，你必须给这些干净的鼓加油。 我们现在只要用一个愚蠢的小东西在桌上[咯咯笑]就能做的事真是太神奇了……我们花了很多时间来做这种事情。

I was in that for about ten years, and it started off as a pretty interesting job, but it gradually became more and more automated, and it wasn’t as useful and as motivating as it was when I started.

我在那工作了大约十年，它起初是一项非常有趣的工作，但后来逐渐变得越来越自动化，并且它没有像我刚开始时那样有用和充满动力。

So I got a little payout, because they were reducing the numbers in the company. So that actually gave me the time to go back to school for two years. And I was basically studying what was called Electronic Design, and at that stage (we’re talking about ’97, ’98), almost everyone in my class at that stage was studying to design for Macromedia Director.

因此，我得到了一些回报，因为他们正在减少公司的人数。 因此，这实际上给了我时间重返学校两年。 我基本上是在研究所谓的电子设计，在那个阶段(我们谈论的是'97，'98)，那个阶段我班上的几乎每个人都在为Macromedia Director设计设计。

Everyone was just, We don’t want to learn — … what was that code? It was some kind of code — ExtendScript or some kind of crazy thing. Everyone wanted to make CD-ROMs, and I didn’t really think that was the future. I remember there was me and one other girl that were pretty interested in doing internet stuff, and most of the other people were pretty much like, Ew, code, don’t show me code!

每个人都只是， 我们不想学习- ……那是什么代码？ 那是某种代码-ExtendScript或某种疯狂的东西。 每个人都想制作CD-ROM，而我并不真正认为那是未来。 我记得有一个我和另一个女孩对做互联网工作非常感兴趣，而其他大多数人都非常喜欢， Ew，代码，不要给我代码！

[Chuckling]

[咯咯笑]

So I started to just get into HTML, and I think I made a good decision early on. I started using a little text editor called Arachnophilia, which was just a really simple text editor for laying out the code. And everyone in the class was told to use Adobe PageMill, and — ugh! — that thing was just horrendous. The code it wrote! And it put the code behind a screen like the Wizard of Oz. You really didn’t know what it was doing. It was like using Word, and you really didn’t learn much using it.

所以我开始接触HTML，我认为我早就做出了一个不错的决定。 我开始使用一个名为Arachnophilia的小型文本编辑器，它只是一个用于布局代码的非常简单的文本编辑器。 班上的每个人都被告知要使用Adobe PageMill，而且–嗯！ -那东西真可怕。 它写的代码！ 并将代码放在“绿野仙踪”之类的屏幕后面。 您真的不知道它在做什么。 就像使用Word，您实际上并没有学到很多东西。

So I started playing around with the code from that early time, and I think that set me up well for when CSS started to become a thing. I was immediately playing with it, and it was certainly a big thing in the early days of SitePoint. We were pushing things like moving away from table-based design. I think we were one of the earliest sites to jump onto that — at a time when the technology didn’t really support it all that well.

因此，我从很早就开始使用代码，并且我认为当CSS开始成为一种东西时，这为我做好了准备。 我立即开始使用它，这在SitePoint的早期肯定是一件大事。 我们正在推动诸如摆脱基于表的设计之类的事情。 我认为我们是最早使用该技术的站点之一-在该技术不能很好地支持所有功能的时候。

It’s hard to remember how hard it was in those days to get very simple things to happen with just floats.

很难记得当时那些只有浮标才能发生的非常简单的事情有多难。

David [13:47]: 大卫[13:47] ：

Were you building all of that yourself by hand?

您是在手动构建所有这些内容吗？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Yeah. We had a PHP backend that we built from scratch, and myself and Julian designed, and it wasn’t responsive in the way that we talk about now. But it worked on smaller devices, and we were pretty ahead of the curve I think for where we were at the time.

是的 我们有一个从零开始构建PHP后端，由我自己和Julian设计，它没有像我们现在所说的那样响应。 但是它可以在较小的设备上运行，而且我认为我们当时处于领先地位。

David: 大卫：

It’s interesting you’ve gone from really being hands on, doing all of the nitty-gritty coding on the site, to being in more of a hands-off position right now — where I assume there are other people who are doing the hands-on coding for the site.

有趣的是，您已经从真正动手，在网站上完成所有棘手的编码，变成了现在更加放手-我假设还有其他人在做手-关于网站的编码。

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Yeah, we’ve got a team, and I tend to contribute more components that I’ll come up with. At the moment, we may not see it on the site, but in my spare time I’m working on an idea with SVG and the golden ratio. I’ve got basically a grid of reusable icons that I want to generate a new piece of art for every article, in SVG, and I’m using the title of the article and the author’s name and the date to create a random number, and that gets fed into this little drawing, and it creates a new layout based on a bunch of rules that’ll generate a palette.

是的，我们有一个团队，我倾向于贡献更多我将要提出的组件。 目前，我们可能在网站上看不到它，但是在业余时间里，我正在研究SVG和黄金分割率的想法。 我基本上已经有了一个可重复使用的图标网格，我想为每篇文章使用SVG生成新的艺术品，并且我使用文章的标题，作者的姓名和日期来创建一个随机数，然后将其输入到此小图形中，并根据一堆规则创建一个新的布局，该规则将生成一个调色板。

And I’m looking at the words, and if there’s a word like make or PHP or something that actually means something that I can attach to one of the 40 icons that I’ve got, it’ll use that. But otherwise, I’ve been looking at Bauhaus artists, and getting inspiration. They’re some of my favorite designers and artists.

我正在查看这些词，如果有诸如make或PHP之类的词，或者实际上意味着我可以附加到我拥有的40个图标之一的东西，它将使用该词。 但除此之外，我一直在寻找包豪斯(Bauhaus)艺术家，并获得灵感。 他们是我最喜欢的设计师和艺术家。

So I’m trying to bring that through and use that really geometric kind of idea that a lot of those guys — Kandinsky and those kind of guys — used; trying to tease out the layout rules that they used, and see if I can reinter them back into a single graphic that keeps regenerating itself — I guess for each article.

因此，我试图将其传达出来，并使用许多家伙(例如Kandinsky和那些家伙)所使用的那种真正几何的想法； 试图弄清楚他们使用的布局规则，看看是否可以将它们重新组合成一张不断再生自身的图形-我猜每篇文章。

So, if you give it the same information, you’ll get the same drawing every time.

因此，如果您提供相同的信息，则每次都会获得相同的图形。

David [16:08]: 大卫[16:08] ：

I am looking forward to reading the article that you are definitely going to write about that.

我很期待阅读您肯定会写的文章。

Alex 亚历克斯

Yeah, it’s coming along slowly. You don’t want to make it too complicated, or else no one will be able to understand what you’re doing, and it’s really hard to explain.

是的，它进展缓慢。 您不想使它变得太复杂，否则没人会理解您在做什么，这真的很难解释。

So, I think actually it’s a really useful thing when you’re writing — and when you’re designing things that you’re going to write about, because you know you’re going to have to explain it — you have to try to make it simple when you build it, so you can explain it!

因此，我认为实际上这在编写时以及在设计要编写的内容时都是非常有用的事情，因为您知道必须要解释一下，因此必须尝试在构建时将其简化，以便您进行解释！

It’s almost like a factor that pulls things back to a reasonable level, which is actually useful for the design, I think.

我认为这几乎就像一个因素将事情拉回到合理的水平，这实际上对设计很有用。

David: 大卫：

Has that approach — the fact you have to think about how you’re going to explain these things — changed the way you develop?

这种方法(您必须考虑如何解释这些事情的事实)是否改变了您的开发方式？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Yeah, definitely, and it’s something that I’m pushing on to when I edit and I work with the authors.

是的，肯定的，这是我进行编辑并与作者合作时要坚持的目标。

A lot of the time, people will even just explain things in a way that’s got lots of detail and is correct, but sometimes there’s five things that might be in that particular sentence, and they’re all correct, but there’s only two that are really useful — and the others are just getting in the way, and cluttering up the sentence.

很多时候，人们甚至会以一种非常详细且正确的方式来解释事物，但有时在该特定句子中可能有五件事，而且它们都是正确的，但是只有两件事是正确的。真的很有用，而其他的只是阻碍，使句子混乱。

So that whole idea is actually something that writing has done. I think that Hemingway talks about robust writing and vigorous writing and simplifying. I think he said something like, You have to know all the parts of a story before you start writing it. You have to know all the details. You can’t skim and pretend that stuff doesn’t matter, but you can’t put all of that into the story. You have to know it before you start, but you have to choose the parts of the story and leave the other stuff almost below the water for that to work. And neither of those approaches — either missing stuff or trying to jam it all in — actually works for good writing. So I think that actually works for coding and for all sorts of other things.

因此，整个想法实际上就是写作所完成的。 我认为海明威(Hemingway)谈论健壮的写作以及有力的写作和简化。 我认为他说过类似的话：开始写作之前 ， 您必须先了解故事的所有部分。 您必须知道所有详细信息。 您不能掠过并假装无关紧要，但是您不能将所有内容都放入故事中。 在开始之前，您必须先了解它，但您必须选择故事的各个部分，而将其他内容放置在水面之下才能正常工作。 而且，这些方法(无论是缺少内容还是试图将其全部塞入其中)均无法有效地写作。 因此，我认为这实际上适用于编码和各种其他事情。

So, it’s definitely a principle that I think writing has taught me, and I bring it into design and even the coding stuff that I do. There’s a lot that Hemingway can teach you, I think, about things other than writing.

因此，这绝对是我认为写作已经教给我的一个原则，我将其带入设计甚至是我从事的编码工作中。 我认为，海明威(Hemingway)可以教给您很多关于写作以外的知识。

David [18:15]: 大卫[18:15] ：

I think that there was a JavaScript book published a couple of years back, by Angus Croll, called If Hemingway Wrote JavaScript — about the way the different authors would approach the writing of their code.

我认为几年前Angus Croll出版了一本JavaScript书，名为If Hemingway Wrote JavaScript (关于海明威写JavaScript) ，该书讲述了不同作者处理其代码的方式。

Alex: 亚历克斯：

I’ve seen that book, yeah. Adam has it here, so I had a flick through it. And yeah, I believe it’s got Shakespeare and some other authors in it as well.

我看过那本书，是的。 亚当在这里，所以我轻弹了一下。 是的，我相信其中也包括莎士比亚和其他一些作家。

David: 大卫：

One of the things I like about your articles is you don’t limit yourself to the classical technical design problems or even code design problems. You have articles about how to write, how to deal with copyright issues.

我喜欢您的文章的一件事是，您不会将自己局限于经典的技术设计问题甚至代码设计问题。 您有关于如何写作，如何处理版权问题的文章。

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Yeah, absolutely. As I said, I think when I was limiting myself to the kinds of topics that were directly related to CSS, I was getting panicky about finding things to write about.

是的，绝对。 就像我说的那样，我认为当我将自己限制在与CSS直接相关的主题上时，我对寻找要写的东西感到惊慌。

So, if it’s just something that I would read, and I would think, Wow, that’s really interesting, or That’s something that’s useful for me, or That’s something that I’ve learned this week, and I didn’t know it and it’s made my life a bit better, then I’m usually sure that there’s someone out there that’s going to find that useful.

所以，如果只是我想读的东西，我想， 哇，那真的很有趣，或者这对我很有用，或者这是我本周学到的东西，但我不知道，现在让我的生活变得更好一点，那么我通常会确定那里有人会觉得有用。

So, if I can just put the ruler over it and say That’s worthwhile, I’ll write an article about it. I’m willing to be told off if someone writes me and says, That’s not about design! [Laughs] That’s fine.

因此，如果我可以将尺子放在上面并说那是值得的，我将写一篇有关它的文章。 如果有人给我写信说：“ 这与设计无关！ ”，我很乐意被告知。 [笑]很好。

Tim: 蒂姆：

So, I would imagine you’ve seen the web continually taking on new challenges and being able to accomplish new tasks. Do you see the scope of what the web can handle reaching its peak, or do you think that we’re going to continue to find new things that the web can do that we’ve never even imagined before?

因此，我想您会看到网络不断面临新挑战并能够完成新任务。 您是否看到网络可以处理的工作范围达到顶峰，或者您认为我们将继续发现网络可以做的从未有过的新事物？

Alex [19:55]: 亚历克斯[19:55] ：

I think we’ve still got a long way to go in terms of how far we can push things.

我认为，就我们可以推多远的事情而言，我们还有很长的路要走。

Part of me longs for the early 2000s, where, as a sort of designer/coder, you could almost design and do everything yourself. You were the coder, you were the back-end guy. I used to write PHP in amongst that, and some JavaScript. And being across everything was kind of cool, and now things have become so complicated and powerful that we’ve got UX people just handling small parts, and designers that hand off to front-end people.

我的一部分向往2000年代初期，在那里，作为设计师/编码员，您几乎可以自己设计和完成所有工作。 您是编码员，您是后端人员。 我曾经在其中写过PHP和一些JavaScript。 遍及一切都是很酷的事情，现在事情变得如此复杂和强大，以至于我们让UX人员只处理小零件，而设计师则移交给前端人员。

And I miss that a little bit. But I think the really cool thing about where we are right now is that a hell of a lot of the articles that we wrote during the mid 2000s, and even the good articles that weren’t ours — the Tantek Çeliks, the Inmans and the Davidsons (Mike Davidson) — these sort of guys were writing, and girls were writing, articles to fill holes. They were basically needing to be geniuses to get the spec to work. And everyone was thinking, Ah, this thing is broken. How can we work incredible magic to jam Flash into a text field to give us the ability to make that a font that we want to use?

我有点想念它。 但是，我认为我们现在所处的位置最酷的地方是，我们在2000年代中期撰写的许多文章都陷入了困境，甚至连我们都不是的好文章-TantekÇeliks，Inmans和Davidsons(迈克·戴维森(Mike Davidson))-这类男人在写，女孩们在写，以填补空白。 他们基本上需要天才才能使该规范生效。 每个人都在想， 啊，这东西坏了。 我们如何才能发挥不可思议的魔力将Flash塞入文本字段中，从而使我们能够制作想要使用的字体？

I mean, it’s a pretty ridiculously simple thing — I want this particular font on this page, why can’t I do it? And the hacks that we were doing with JavaScript — sticking Flash — they were mad genius sort of stuff, but they were war crimes in other way!

我的意思是，这是一件非常简单的事情-我想要此页上的这种特定字体，为什么我不能这样做？ 而且我们使用JavaScript进行的黑客攻击-坚持使用Flash-它们是疯狂的天才之物，但它们在其他方面却是战争罪！

So, we were sending our best brains to solve really stupid problems that we had to solve, unfortunately. 2010 was probably where browsers and the web got to a stage where we’d solved most of the stupid problems, and the browsers had solved them anyway, and IE disappeared. And now we’ve got our best brains solving all the great … Look at responsive design: the media query thing had been in the spec for a fair while, but it was probably around 2009–10 that it became a reality. You could use JavaScript before that; I remember people in the mid 2000s writing stuff that checked the page width, but no one really did it.

因此，不幸的是，我们竭尽全力解决了必须解决的真正愚蠢的问题。 2010年可能是浏览器和网络进入一个阶段，在此阶段，我们解决了大多数愚蠢的问题，无论如何浏览器都解决了这些问题，IE消失了。 现在，我们已经全力以赴地解决了所有难题……看一下响应式设计：媒体查询已经在规范中存在了很长一段时间，但是大概是在2009-10年度才成为现实。 在此之前，您可以使用JavaScript。 我记得2000年代中期有人写过检查页面宽度的东西，但没人真正做到这一点。

But the development we’ve seen in the way that we use responsive design and so many other areas, now that we don’t have to worry about plugging holes and filling in some of the crazy inadequacies of web browsers. I think we’ve still got at least another five years of really just pushing the current technology to see how far it can go, and I’m sure we’re going to get a lot more technology in that five years.

但是，我们在使用响应式设计和许多其他领域的方式中所看到的发展，现在我们不必担心会出现漏洞并填补Web浏览器的某些疯狂不足之处。 我认为至少还需要五年的时间，才能真正推动当前技术的发展，看看它能走多远，而且我敢肯定，在这五年中，我们将获得更多的技术。

So, I think we’ve still got quite a lot of runway in front of us.

因此，我认为我们面前还有很多跑道。

David [22:56]: 大卫[22:56] ：

I don’t think there’s any doubt of that.

我认为这毫无疑问。

So, if you were starting off in your web career today, or for people out there who are, where would you put your focus, knowing all the things you know now?

因此，如果您今天刚开始网络职业，或者对于外面的人来说，那么您将重点放在哪里，知道现在知道的所有信息？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Ooooh, that’s a tough one. I think JavaScript … If you’re a designer that knows how to use JavaScript, I think that would be an incredible thing, because it’s such a wide area, and there’s so much stuff going on in that area.

噢，那是一个艰难的过程。 我认为JavaScript…如果您是一个知道如何使用JavaScript的设计师，那将是一件令人难以置信的事情，因为它涉及的领域如此之广，并且该领域有很多工作要做。

And most of the people that are writing JavaScript are obviously not from a design background. So, I’d like to see people with design thinking that could actually it apply it a little bit better in an area like JavaScript — because it starts in-server, and goes all the way through to the front, and you can even take it outside of the browser. And at least when I go to conferences, that’s the area that people are hanging indoors to watch the talks on, and that kind of thing.

而且大多数编写JavaScript的人显然都不是来自设计背景。 因此，我希望看到一些具有设计思想的人，实际上它可以将它在JavaScript等领域中更好地应用-因为它在服务器内启动，一直到前端，甚至可以在浏览器之外。 至少在我参加会议时，那是人们挂在室内观看谈话的区域，以及诸如此类的东西。

And I guess UX is the area that was nothing five years ago, and it’s an area that people are advertising a lot of those positions. And it’s something that has an element of social and an element of design. You’ve really got to think about the way that people think, and talk, and use things. So, I think there’s a lot of people that may have not necessarily been great designers in terms of drawing; they mightn’t have had pen skills, but they’ve got a lot of social skills that actually I think travel into the the UX area really well.

而且我猜想UX是5年前没有的领域，这是人们在其中招聘很多职位的领域。 它具有社交元素和设计元素。 您确实必须考虑人们思考，交谈和使用事物的方式。 因此，我认为有很多人不一定是优秀的设计师。 他们可能没有笔技术，但是他们有很多社交技能，实际上我认为进入UX领域真的很不错。

So, I think there’s certainly work in that area. It’s pretty interesting, and pays pretty well I think, too. So, I think JavaScript and UX would be probably the two areas.

因此，我认为在该领域肯定有工作。 这很有趣，我认为也很不错。 因此，我认为JavaScript和UX可能是两个领域。

David [24:39]: 大卫[24:39] ：

That makes a lot of sense. So how can our listeners find you online?

这很有意义。 那么，我们的听众如何在网上找到您？

Alex: 亚历克斯：

You can certainly sign up to the SitePoint Design newsletter. Probably three out of four things that I write for the newsletter end up on the site. So if you’re around on a Thursday or a Friday, you’ll probably see the piece that I wrote the night before (Wednesday night) that went out in the newsletter. (Well, that would be Wednesday morning for most people!)

您当然可以注册SitePoint Design时事通讯 。 我为时事通讯写的四分之三可能最终出现在网站上。 因此，如果您在星期四或星期五在附近，您可能会在新闻通讯中看到我前一天晚上(星期三晚上)写的那篇文章。 (嗯，对大多数人来说，那是星期三上午！)

I’m @alexmwalker on Twitter. If you are a designer, or you’ve got ideas, certainly drop me a line, because we’re always looking for new content.

我是Twitter上的@alexmwalker 。 如果您是设计师，或者您有想法，请一定打个电话给我，因为我们一直在寻找新的内容。

David: 大卫：

Okay. Alex, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a real treat.

好的。 亚历克斯，非常感谢您加入我们。 这真是一种享受。

Alex: 亚历克斯：

Thank you very much, David and Tim. It’s been a lot of fun.

大卫和蒂姆，非常感谢。 很好玩。

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David [25:32]: 大卫[25:32] ：

So, wow. I’m amazed. I didn’t realize: we were talking with Alex Walker, and his career goes back almost as far as my career in web development.

哇 我很惊讶。 我没有意识到：我们正在与Alex Walker交谈，他的职业生涯可以追溯到我在Web开发领域的职业生涯。

Tim: 蒂姆：

What I found most inspiring about his career and the way he approaches the web is just the multitude of areas he pulls inspiration from. And I think whether you work in design, or UX, or you strictly write bash scripts for servers, you can pull inspiration from so many places other than just the web. And I think that’s something that I know personally I need to take with me whenever I’m working on the web: just to remind myself I can pull inspiration from absolutely everywhere.

我发现对他的职业和他接触网络的方式最大的启发只是他从中汲取灵感的众多领域。 而且我认为无论您是从事设计或UX工作，还是严格为服务器编写bash脚本，您都可以从Web之外的许多地方汲取灵感。 我认为这是我个人在网络上工作时需要带走的东西：只是提醒自己，我可以从绝对的任何地方汲取灵感。

David: 大卫：

Absolutely. And he also came into his career from a print publishing background, and brought it into the web. So he saw that transition happen. And I love how he talked about the way everybody in the late 1990s wanted to write those CD-ROMs in Shockwave Flash — or in Macromedia Director I guess at that time.

绝对。 他还从印刷出版的背景进入职业生涯，并将其带入网络。 因此，他看到了过渡的发生。 我喜欢他谈论所有人在1990年代后期想要用Shockwave Flash或我当时认为的Macromedia Director编写这些CD-ROM的方式。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah. And it’s funny, because you can’t fault those people who are in that stage, and they’re like, All right, I am forced to switch careers. Let me pick what seems to be the thing that’s gonna be next … — which I’m sure everybody thought, All right, CD-ROMs is next. We’ve gone from print, now it’s programming these CDs.

是的 这很有趣，因为您不能指责那些处于那个阶段的人，他们就像， “好吧，我被迫转行。 让我选择下一步将要发生的事情…… –我确信每个人都认为， 接下来是CD-ROM。 我们已经停止印刷，现在正在对这些CD进行编程。

But Alex was fortunate enough to see through that, and say, I think doing stuff for the web is the next big thing. And that’s an interesting and tough situation to be in, when you are forced to transition careers, and you have to predict the future.

但是Alex幸运地看到了这一点，并且说， 我认为为网络做事是下一件大事。 当您被迫转行职业，并且必须预测未来时，这将是一个有趣而艰难的局面。

David [27:21]: 大卫[27:21] ：

That was one of the reasons I was interested in his answer to the question about what people will be focused on now, if they were starting their careers. And I like the direction he took that in — the whole UX design with a coding perspective.

这就是我对他的回答感兴趣的原因之一，即如果人们开始职业生涯，人们现在将关注什么？ 我喜欢他的发展方向-具有编码角度的整个UX设计。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, I see the importance of that — especially since, at my company, we have a UX director, and there are a lot of times that we’ll work on a project that we think is sound and really good, and he’ll come in and say, Here’s a case wherein we have a user, and they’re thinking about this one thing, and they’re using your application, and those two things can clash. And it’s always this set of events we’ve never thought about, because it’s not from a pure code perspective.

是的，我明白了这一点的重要性-尤其是因为在我公司里，我们有一名UX总监，而且很多时候我们都会从事一个我们认为是很好而且真的很好的项目，而他会进来说， 在这种情况下，我们有一个用户，他们在考虑这一件事，并且他们在使用您的应用程序，这两种情况可能会发生冲突。 而且，这始终是我们从未考虑过的事件集，因为这不是纯粹的代码角度。

It’s also considering the attitude and the mindset of the person using your product — which is a thing that I, as just someone who writes code, very often forget.

它还考虑了使用您的产品的人的态度和心态–这是我作为一个编写代码的人经​​常忘记的一件事。

David: 大卫：

It also feels like something that has a timeless quality about it. Because, unlike the flavor of the month — CD-ROMs, whatever that happens to be — that’s the sort of thing that you can focus on, and it’s always going to have a relevance.

感觉就像是具有永恒品质的东西。 因为，与本月的风格不同-CD-ROM，不管碰巧如何-这都是您可以关注的事情，并且始终具有相关性。

Tim: 蒂姆：

O yeah, definitely.

是的，绝对可以。

David: 大卫：

In fact, it makes me think right now about all of the things people are focusing on in terms of the languages and the frameworks that people use, and how much volatility there is around that. A couple of years ago it was Backbone, and then it was Angular, and now it’s React. Where do you put your attention?

实际上，这使我现在就根据人们使用的语言和框架来思考人们关注的所有事物，以及周围的动荡程度。 几年前是Backbone，然后是Angular，现在是React。 你把注意力放在哪里？

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, it was very interesting. I noticed when Angular first started to become this is now how you write code: you use Angular, I would see a lot of people putting hashtag #AngularDeveloper in their Twitter bios. And it always seemed a little bit weird to me, because it’s not the web. It’s a subset of a subset of a language that you use to write for the web. And, basing your career around Angular, which was the CD-ROM of JavaScript frameworks at the time —

是的，这很有趣。 我注意到Angular何时开始成为这种代码，现在是您编写代码的方式：您使用Angular ，我会看到很多人在他们的Twitter简历中加上#AngularDeveloper标签。 对我来说，这似乎总是有些怪异，因为它不是网络。 它是您用于网络编写的语言子集的子集。 而且，您的职业生涯围绕Angular(当时JavaScript框架是CD-ROM)进行，

David: 大卫：

[Laughing] The Angular folks are not going to like that analogy!

[偷笑] Angular的人们不会喜欢这个比喻！

Tim [29:24]: 蒂姆[29:24] ：

And I’m very sorry, and if you have #AngularDeveloper in your Twitter bio, that’s nothing against you. I’m sure you’re great. I don’t even know how to use Angular. I looked at it at one point.

非常抱歉，如果您的Twitter简历中包含#AngularDeveloper，那对您没有什么害处。 我确定你很棒。 我什至不知道如何使用Angular。 我看了一眼。

But anyways, the point being, it’s about the web and learning language fundamentals — for me, at least.

但是无论如何，重点是，它至少是关于网络和学习语言的基础知识。

And I’ve always felt that if you learn the languages and the fundamentals themselves, as deeply and as thoroughly as possible, the tools and the frameworks will come a lot easier.

我一直觉得，如果您尽可能深入和全面地学习语言和基础知识，则工具和框架将变得更加容易。

David: 大卫：

I think that those are also the most interesting articles when I read about them. I was looking back at some of Alex’s writings, and he’s got writings on SitePoint that go back to 2005, 2006. And there are things like this is how you get around this IE7 bug. [Chuckling] And right now, it’s not particularly relevant to know how you get around an IE7 bug. But in later years, most of his articles have a much more timeless quality, and they apply to things that we’re going to be doing for decades — in terms of how we write and how we present our information.

我认为当我阅读这些文章时，它们也是最有趣的文章。 我回头看过Alex的一些著作，他在SitePoint上的著作可以追溯到2005年，2006年。有些事情就是解决IE7错误的方法 。 [咯咯笑]现在，知道如何解决IE7错误并不是特别重要。 但是在后来的几年中，他的大多数文章都具有更永恒的品质，它们适用于数十年来我们将要做的事情-就我们的写作方式和信息呈现方式而言。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. That reminds me of an article I was reading today about the upcoming service worker specification, and how you have this very low-level API. And the author was saying it’s too low level, and it’s like, I want to do this one simple thing, and it’s like using a sledgehammer to crack open a walnut.

是的，当然。 这让我想起了我今天读的一篇文章，内容涉及即将到来的服务工作者规范，以及如何使用这个非常低级的API。 作者说这是太低的水平，就像我想做一件简单的事情，就像用大锤将核桃开裂一样。

And, while it seems at the current point in time that you only want to do x, y, z with this thing — that makes sense that it should be simpler. But thinking about that same idea, but from a long-term perspective, you want the tools and the platforms that you used to build for the web to be very low level, and very deep, and very rich. Because then they can be applied to more than what you just have planned for, right now.

而且，尽管在当前时间点上您只想用此东西进行x，y，z的处理，但它应该更简单。 但想着同样的想法，但是从长远的角度来看，你需要的工具和您用来建立网站是非常低的水平的平台，而且非常深，非常丰富。 因为这样，它们现在可以应用到超出您计划的范围。

David [31:28]: 大卫[31:28] ：

I think that’s an excellent point. And it ties right back into what Alex was talking about too — about how, now when he creates something, he’s always thinking about how he’s going to write to present it, and it forces him to think in that much more broad frame.

我认为这是一个很好的观点。 这与Alex刚才谈论的内容息息相关-关于如何创建现在的东西，他一直在思考如何编写以呈现它，这迫使他在更广泛的框架内进行思考。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, that was refreshing to hear. I’ve noticed myself doing that a lot too. For developers that are on my team, when I’m writing a piece of code, I will often pause and think, I have one too many ternary operators here, or, I could just break this out and add just one comment. And while it doesn’t look as cool and edgy — like, O, you used two lines on this super complicated algorithm — it’s more about people. Because the code that you write, someone else is going to have to look at. And if they can’t understand it, they’re going to do exactly what I would do in the same situation — just tear it all down and spend the day fixing it. Where I could have just looked up some documentation, or just looked at the code that was not terse and well commented, and saved money and time while improving the lifecycle of the project that I’m working on.

是的，听到这些令人耳目一新。 我也注意到自己做了很多事情。 对于我团队中的开发人员，当我编写一段代码时，我经常会停下来想一想， 我这里有太多的三元运算符，或者， 我可以将其分解并仅添加一条注释。 尽管它看起来不那么酷和前卫-就像， O，您在这种超级复杂的算法上使用了两行内容 -但这更多地是关于人的。 因为您编写的代码是其他人必须要看的。 而且，如果他们听不懂，他们将完全按照我在相同情况下会做的事–拆掉所有东西并花一天的时间进行修复。 我可以在其中查找一些文档，或者仅查看不简洁且注释不清的代码，从而节省金钱和时间，同时改善我正在研究的项目的生命周期。

David: 大卫：

Now let the choir sing amen! to that.

现在让合唱团唱阿门！ 对此。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Although I will say, I do love my ternary operators, and I like people who can read those.

尽管我会说，但我确实喜欢我的三元运算符，并且我喜欢可以阅读这些运算符的人。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Me too. They’re one of my favorite things.

我也是。 它们是我最喜欢的东西之一。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

Those and short circuits — with the double ampersands.

这些和短路-与双＆符。

[Laughter]

[笑声]

David [32:55]: 大卫[32:55] ：

All right, I think we’re getting to the end of this show then. I think this was a really great episode.

好吧，我想我们到了这个节目的结尾。 我认为这是非常棒的一集。

Tim: 蒂姆：

Yeah, definitely. I learned a lot, and I’m excited to apply a lot of these concepts to my daily development.

是的，当然。 我学到了很多东西，我很高兴将很多这些概念应用到我的日常开发中。

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Well, thank you so much for listening, everybody. We always enjoy getting to talk technology with all of you.

好，非常感谢大家的倾听。 我们总是喜欢与大家交谈技术。

David: 大卫：

We would also like to thank SitePoint.com, and our producers, Adam Roberts and Ophelie Lechat. Please feel free to send us your comments on Twitter — @versioningshow — and give us a rating on iTunes.

我们还要感谢SitePoint.com以及我们的制片人Adam Roberts和Ophelie Lechat。 请随时在Twitter( @versioningshow)上向我们发送您的评论，并在iTunes上给我们评分。

Let us know how we’re doing.

让我们知道我们的状况。

Tim: 蒂姆：

We’ll see you next time, and we hope you enjoyed this version.

下次见，我们希望您喜欢这个版本。

翻译自: https://www.sitepoint.com/versioning-show-episode-3-with-alex-walker/

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