So… I guess now that the guys are all here I’ll make a formal introduction. Giovanni, Don and Mark are the team behind our very soon to be released Node.js Jump Start book (which is the first in a new series that we’re introducing). Thanks for your time this morning guys.

I’m Community Manager at SP and I’ll be moderating the session.

whats everyone experience with node?

If you haven’t taken part in one of these sessions before, it’s a bit of a free for all. Jump in with a question at any time & I’ll make sure that I stay on top of any that might get lost in the noise.

What IS node?

@suniled none as yet but seen on some job postings so wanting to learn more

http://nodejs.org/

What apps have you guys built that are in production?

freshman here (haven’t even made a hello world yet)

I’m working on a rather large(ish) project right now…and I have a question for any expert who knows about transferring Backbone.js application state using Socket.IO.

suniled, It has its idiosyncrasies but once you get used to them it’s a very pleasant programming environment

experimented only

JerryE, it’s a platform for building fast and scalable network applications. It’s generally used for real time web apps

Node.js is a wrapper around Google’s V8 JavaScript engine

Been working on node for about 6months, love it !! building simple sites to chat boxes… nothing in production… all learning

Want to get into the real-time applications…

It allows you to interact with the system the way any normal application does

So Node.js doesn’t have to be limited to just web apps

@markdalgleish That’s a good point. I’ve made a few small tools that run cross platform

@mb4, I was in charge of technology for HouseFix. Node.js did everything we wanted technologically but unfortunately the startup has decided to wind down for various business reasons

Ive heard a few critics of node.js, and watched a few videos on YouTube, Im sure you know the ones I mean?

I see LinkedIn are now using it. Is it a case that it’s really built for higher traffic sites rather than normal static type sites?

@rettal, to which specific criticisms are you referring?

I wondering if some of the experts can talk about the future of node… like what can we expect when 1.0 comes out?

@dmon well, you can handle more easily thousands of requests because of its async nature

@dmon, it can be used for any site but its real competitive advantages shine when it comes to real time web applications

@dmon Node.js can be used as for static sites, but that’s not really playing to its strengths

spefically with regard to the event loop and how we as programmers are left to handle more lower level stuff whereas these problems have alreadybeen solved?

Where Node is really powerful is in its real-time, event-driven nature

@TJKoury I imagine your question will require quite a bit of to and fro, perhaps it is one that is best for forums?

OK thanks :)

@DonNguyen Thanks mentioning that, I’ll take you up on it :>

Here’s a more general question: what are some strategies to reuse server-side code on the client?

FYI any Node questions can be asked at our JS forum here https://www.sitepoint.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-JavaScript-amp-jQuery

@rettal, again do you have any specific examples of the ‘lower level stuff’? I know the callback style has received criticism but there are libraries available that make this read more like the traditional programming style

Thanks

I wouldn’t say that Node.js is very low level. I can see that people can struggle with the callback style

TJKoury, there is a package called dnode https://github.com/substack/dnode It allows for RPC functionality and can be used to share libraries on the client and the server

the more you work on node though the callback style is not that big of a deal IMO

I guess it makes a different way of thinking about working with the web? Rather tahn thinking in terms of “request in, handle, and give an answer”

The callback style forces you to think async from the beginning, it’s where a lot of Node’s power comes from

coding servers / http requests is lower level than most platforms.

@donNguyen I’ll definitely check that out, thanks

for a n00b, is it akin to a stripped down version of php+apache in one but more efficient?

I guess I mean with regard to the non-blocking nature of node.js

@rettal I’m not sure we understand what you’re asking

mb4, that’s true. In an environment such as PHP, you have a separate web server such as Apache. In Node.js, you don’t have this decoupling. Whilst it does force you to create your own server (in under 10 lines) it also gives you full control over the http request response cycle

@dmon In Node, you write the server

There are libraries built around making a standard server easier, but you can make a server that’s much smarter

well, apache will handle that stuff for you, with node,js yours on your own thus increasing complexity but I guess callbacks help with that?

I’ve found that Node is more efficiently integrated with the ‘low-level’ stuff; try watching a file for changes using PHP.

(you can do it, but it will kill your CPU)

The callbacks with system hooks are a huge plus, as is having low-level control over the http server.

dmon, it’s not just a stripped down version. Other big differences would be: single language between front end and back end, NoSQL as opposed to SQL, asynchronous as opposed to synchronous.

OK thanks I thnk I get it now. I had it in my head that it was ‘just’ another Apache server like Nginx in a sense, but clearly not :D

@rettal it’s easier than you think

As someone who is interested in this but has no experience in it. Where do you recommend I start? articles, sites & books?

@donNguyen OK thanks. Are ‘normal’ DBs like MySQL/Postgres available to use too out of the box or is it a case of adding in a library or ?

I think people see the famous seven ( or whatever ) line server and think WOW!, and rightly so but I think there is a lot more to it

here’s a good intro… http://book.mixu.net/

rettal, callbacks are not used for complexity management but rather asynchronous programming. Writing your own server in Node.js is not very complicated at all

… and http://toolbox.no.de/

@suniled thanks

And here are some blogs/sites http://www.nodecloud.org/

I read this early on when I was learning Node.js: http://www.nodebeginner.org/

ok, thanks Don

dmon, MySQL can be installed with a single command from the package system

Keep those close… bounce around… find a project… and nodeOUT

Personally, I learned a lot from trying to solve real problems using Node, throwing myself in the deep end

@rettal I think you’ll find that most of that ‘complexity’ that you’re missing from Apache or whatnot is unnecessary to whatever you’re working on, so you don’t have to manage a huge httpd.conf or whatever (most if which is copied from Apache forums…)

will do!! 4 new bookmarks to read

you just configure what you need!

Also, I’d recommend visiting a local JS meetup and finding a Node.js expert to guide you through the basics

if you don’t have a good understanding on web protocols (like what http means, etc) its quite a steep climb

I found that to be possibly the best way to get up to speed

OK. So I’ve got an API I built for a couple of sites talking to a SAP system, using Node for something like that instead of the current apache/php/curl setup, would that be a good use? Not high traffic, but to start me out in a real-world enviro?

keller, aside from the obligatory plug for Jump Start Node.js, projecteuler.net is my first resource when learning any new programming language

@markdalgleish true… but its not that easy finding one :)

@dmon node is perfect for apis, especially if you talk json

dmon, is it a REST API?

thank you @DonNguyen

@donNguyen Errr… it feeds in/out text files, basically generates order files to send to SAP, gets back a reply file with successfully placed orders [in SAP], out of stock files, etc. either as .txt or .csv

It seems that most people using node for web apps use the Express framework. I haven’t found great example web apps that aren’t buggy as hell. Is it fair to say Node works well as a supporting technology for specific areas it’s well suited to but still doesn’t have a mature web app framework for building the whole thing in Node?

@mb4 I don’t think that build a complete web framework like rail is the objective of node

@mb4 Trello is a great example of a large scale, high traffic site built with Node.js

dmon, Node.js will serve your purpose perfectly well but that’s not the type of project where it really shines over and above PHP. As a learning project it works great

@mb4 node is build for fast and non-blocking application (can be web or not)

oh, I didn’t know Trello is completely in Node. gvvn, that’s my impression too.

It’s certainly possible, and Fog Creek have said how much they enjoy using Node.js: http://blog.fogcreek.com/the-trello-tech-stack/

sstephenson just tweeted this he built https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/1z1R100K1O3R2I1I3F43/kinect%20png%20stream.mov https://github.com/sstephenson/kinect

@mb4 I think it really matters what you’re trying to do. If you’re rendering pages on the server for SEO or whatever, you probably want to use something else. For me, since I use Backbone.js for everything and render views on the client, it works great as a data aggregator/cache/validator.

@mb4 geeklist is a node app too. Node gie you the building blocks and the you can build your app as you like

Pulling in data from the Kinect and displaying visualisations. It seems like people are using Node for new things which is kinda cool.

Server Frameworks: http://expressjs.com/ , http://towerjs.org/ , http://railwayjs.com/ (if your

mb4, Express.js is an extremely well tested framework. Designed more to be like Sinatra rather than Rails. I imagine the bugs are more due to the programmer rather than the environment :-) In Jump Start Node.js, we spend quite a bit of time going through test driven design.

@mb4 that’s is great if you want to build a fast and scaling application, instead of a monolithic app with rails (or other frameworks)

Server Frameworks: http://expressjs.com/ , http://towerjs.org/ , http://railwayjs.com/ (if your from ruby), http://flatironjs.org/

if you like streams try https://github.com/mikeal/tako

@donNguyen ok thanks understood

@mb4 My experience with Express has been great. The only real issue I’ve had is with a module that had a memory leak, not with the web framework.

Client Side: http://angularjs.org/ , http://emberjs.com/ , http://backbonejs.org/

@gvnn, I’d never built a monolithic anything, just multiple small apps.

Thanks for the thoughts on frameworks, keen to check out your book when it’s released.

@mb4 well then node can be a good option… I certainly suggest node for APIs and process of stream of data

Node is great for making lightweight but powerful apps

Real-Time frameworks: http://derbyjs.com/ , http://meteor.com/ , http://www.socketstream.org/

What are the best packages to use to build a JSON API backed by Postgres?

mb4, for small apps have a look at meteor.com. One of the newer frameworks sitting on top of Node.js. Have a look at the screen cast for the party application. Your jaw will drop.

@DonNguyen I’ll check it out

Meteor is amazing, although I would treat it as a separate entity to Node

it’s built on top of Node, but abstracts it away from you

i.e. you can’t install arbitrary packages from npm

markdalgesh, agreed. However for smaller single page web applications, I believe Meteor really shines. It is as you say somewhat of a different animal

Meteor has its own package manager, i think

@DonNguyen It is pretty amazing, I built a tool at work using Meteor for real-time communication between offices

mb4, I have used https://github.com/brianc/node-postgres with no problems. Plain vanilla Express.js is fine for serving JSON

@suniled Yeah, it has “Smart Packages”

Does anyone have Node.js vs. Other web server performance test? How can Node.js serve under heavy traffic for an app?

@nokrosis I tried once to do some benchmarking https://github.com/gvnn/nodenight-benchmarks

but it’s not a “REAL” benchmark, it’s just a fibonacci calculation

but it gives you an idea… and php is surprisingly fast

What would you guys like Node to support that it doesn’t at the moment? What are the pain points?

@Nokrosis for what its worth http://zgadzaj.com/benchmarking-nodejs-basic-performance-tests-against-apache-php

I think it’s worth mentioning that a choice for or against Node should be based on what you’re trying to achieve, not so much its performance

Nokrosis, benchmarking is a very tricky topic and it very much depends on the exact test you’re doing. However as a very broad generalization, it generally benchmarks favorably compared to other platforms. Performance is one of its core goals.

That’s not to say that it’s not fast (it is), but for certain kinds of apps it’s a much better solution

If I want to write a real-time web app, Node.js is an obvious choice

I think that’s what I couldn’t get my head round initially. It’s suitable for some apps, not others.

also https://vertxproject.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/vert-x-vs-node-js-simple-http-benchmarks/

Nokrosis, in addition to what markdalgesh said, it is generally better suited for anything IO intensive (database, network, disk)

Anybody a fan of Meteor/Derby?

I’m a big fan of Meteor

suniled, that’s a fairly controversial benchmark I would recommend reading all of the responses as well in particular anything by Isaac Schlueter

I think there’s a bright future for the kind of approach that Meteor takes

yep… agreed

@DonNguyen I’m running a media site with heavy traffic, i’m saving posts as static html files and including them with php into the page layout. Can i use Node.js to run this faster with fewer server resources?

mb4, the package system is pretty amazing it supports a lot of esoteric software and platforms. One of the pain points is the immaturity of the package system. Because anybody can release a package you’re never sure what you’re getting in terms of quality.

@markdalgleish what would you say are the top two reasons you like it?

@TJKoury First, how easy it makes it to write a single page app with automatic data binding to the server. Nothing else comes close.

@TJKoury Secondly, how it shares code between server and client by default, something that normally requires a bit of work

@mb4 i guess that the best practise is always to choose packages that are constantly maintained… a package that its last push was 1 year ago probably is not the right choice

Nokrosis, yes but I would say this is more an architectural thing rather than a platform thing. Without knowing the specifics, at a first pass I would say that using an indexed database would be much faster than saving as static HTML files

@markdalgleish thanks

@markdalgleish @TJKoury Model-View data binding http://blog.derbyjs.com/2012/04/14/our-take-on-derby-vs-meteor/

@DonNguyen I’ll try that solution with Node.js and an indexed MongoDB

towards the middle they talk about these ‘bindings’

Nokrosis, I would recommend doing a few small scale benchmarks first to help you decide whether the performance difference is worth the cost of doing a full migration across.

@suniled That article touches a lot on what I would say is one of Meteor’s biggest strengths and weaknesses

which is that Meteor have created their own ecosystem

They’ve made it ridiculously easy to create an app and deploy it to meteor.com

I don’t have any experience in meteor or derby but I’ve read a lot about them and some of my colleagues use meteor and others derby. It seems they both solve the same problem but with just a few tweaks that are different

But of course, that comes at the cost of separating itself from the Node community and all of its existing modules

but wouldn’t you say the down side is that ‘its there own ecosystem’

@markdalgleish Thanks again. I’ve looked at different ‘end-to-end’ solutions in the past, but always ended up writing my own b/c it seems they aren’t mature enough.

@suniled It depends who you are

@markdalgleish plus… i believe meteor got ridiculous amount of funding to get off the ground

@suniled something like 11 million

…kind of makes you wonder what their business plan is going to be…

from stockoverflow – http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10374113/meteor-vs-derbyjs

*stack

I can’t imagine they’d be making bank off of hosting alone

TJKoury they are going to release an enterprise product called Galaxy

Oh, ok.

@TJKoury hosting meteor apps

to be honest I’m not a big fan of these frameworks, I’d rather build a set of apis and then a front end application that consumes these apis

keep the 2 layers separated gives me the chance of change the backend layer later on, keeping the same front end

Hi and welcome to those of you that have just joined us. There is about 15 minutes left in the session, so if you have questions, make sure you get them in soon. The team of experts today are the guys behind the first in our upcoming Jump Start series, which is about Node.js https://www.sitepoint.com/get-a-jump-start-on-web-development-and-design/

@gvnn Agreed

@gvnn hear hear

@gvnn, I don’t like all encompassing frameworks that absract the client / server divide either.

*here *here

@gvnn That said, I think things like Meteor and Derby are a sign of things to come

@markdalgleish I think Meteor/Derby will be the new PHP

What are your twitter / github handles ?

how does node.js fit into the WebRTC tech?

@markdalgleish you are right, that is what helps a framework to be adopted by a larger audience

but, by the end of the day, all you need is HTTP :p

@mb4 Mine is, appropriately enough, markdalgleish

would node.js fit nicely into a browser?

@suniled Maybe into ChromeOS…

@gvnn Yeah, Meteor makes things that are normally quite tricky in Node ridiculously easy, so a lot of people will be attracted to it

As always, the downside is when you want to do something that isn’t quite the “Meteor way”

@markdalgleish i think devs are a little hesitant in getting into meteor because of the ecosystem… it maybe dead simple to get an app running but then what?

mb4, my GitHub is nodeninja. Unfortunately with Twitter I’m still stuck in the 90’s

@suniled There are a lot of different kinds of devs out there. Some devs just want something easy and powerful, that does a lot of work for them.

Of course, that kind of power comes at a cost, which a lot of other devs don’t want

@suniled what you can do is to build your core as a module and keep it separated as much as possible from meteor

that gives you the ability to change framework later on

@markdalgleish @gvnn interesting

We have just over 5 minutes left in the session. Does anyone have a question that they haven’t received a satisfactory answer for?

i just have a private project in ruby/sinatra/nokogiri(mechanize): login into website, get html – and give back mobile html (iui) – can i use the backend part (login, parsing html, response like a api with json) with node? on client side then i can consume this json api with the client libraries you mentioned in the above links

slides. http://www.slideshare.net/studgeek/an-overview-of-derbyjs-and-meteorjs-for-the-nova-nodejs-meetup

@suniled what you can do is also run your own npm server :p

@gvnn …using a Metor app on their server…

I have learnt a lot here and the links posted have been a great insight, thanks!

muescha, that project will fit very well with Node.js. Anything relating to JSON consumption will fit like the proverbial glove

@muescha Yes, that kind of setup is definitely possible

@gvnn fun!

This has been great, thanks everyone!

@TJKoury could work… even though i’d suggest http://nodejitsu.com/ for hosting

@TJKoury Meteor allows you to generate a tarball with everything needed to host it yourself

@gvnn thats where i’m working on getting my first ‘coming out the closet’ site !

@gvnn I was meta-kidding, but good suggestion

@gvnn, where can I stalk you?

No worries. Thanks everyone for joining us this morning. Don’t forget that you can check out the Node.js book shortly. If you want notification when it is released, you can sign up here https://www.sitepoint.com/get-a-jump-start-on-web-development-and-design/

@TJKoury everything is possible… we can run a web server in a quadcopter device flying in your room

If you want to be notified of future sessions like this, you can sign up here https://www.facebook.com/sitepoint/app_115462065200508

@mb4 gvnnrules on twitter

@markdalgleish I did see that in the docs, but let’s be honest here, once you’re 6 months into a project the last thing you want to do is export all your data and re-ingest, while dealing with DNS registration

Feel free to hang around and chat for as long as you like – I’ll leave the room open

And I’ll be posting a transcript up on both sitepoint.com and jspro.com later today

@DonNguyen @markdalgleish mhhh the html parsing makes me some headaches. or can i parse a html page like jquery oder DOMDocument with css/xpath ?

Thanks @HAWK :)

One thing about Meteor is security. By default anyone can update anything right from their web browser. This is the default setting and you actually need to turn it off for security. One little gotcha.

@gvnn lol…buy me a quadcopter and I’ll mount a raspberryPI on it!

Thanks very much to Don, Mark and Giovanni for your time this morning – esp at 7am!

lol, plenty of day left for lots of node dev now then ;)

@tjKoury there is a whole podcast on Nodeup about robots, and the node comunity is going crazy

@gvnn holy crap, how have I not seen this? Thanks for the tip.

@DonNguyen Yes, the famous Meteor demo video is only possible because security is off by default

ps… for those that want to know more about node (and their deities) http://nodeup.com/

Thanks for the chat, I’ve been reading posts and following links, even if I neven used node.js before..! Really interesting, I’d sure give it a try!

Thanks Sarah. Thanks to everyone for tuning in and some great questions

never*

Thanks for the chat everyone, found it very useful.

Thanks all, node is webscale.

Thanks

muescha, I may have misunderstood your question but there are HTML parsing libraries in the package ecosystem that make this job pretty easy

If you haven’t tried Node before, at least do this today:
1) Install Node.js
2) Create “helloworld.js” with 1 line: console.log(“Hello world”);
3) From the terminal, run “node helloworld”

@DonNguyen thx (parsing was only one part of it)

mb4, from memory MongoDB is webscale, Node.js is rock star tech :-)

@TJKoury http://nodecopter.com/ ;)

muescha, what’s the other part of your problem?

@gvnn I just added myself to the mailing list!

Thanks all, had a blast.

all right guys, thanks to everybody… duty calls, time to go to work (the day’s just started in Melbourne)

Thanks everyone, hope I was at least somewhat helpful

Thanks for the tips!

Thanks everyone!

If anyone wants to ask me anything else, catch me on Twitter

My handle is @markdalgleish

@gvnn time to go home here!

Thanks guys. I will be around for a little bit longer in case we missed anything.

certainly gives an interesting insight into node usage :)

and a lot of ideas

someone needs to work out how to double the hours available per day ;)

i think parsing is only the “problem” – (a) login to website (b) get html (c) pase html (d) reponse with json / something like an external api-proxy – add a api to a website (from extern)

I also wrote this blog article recently that some of you may find helpful getting started with creating Node modules:

markdalgleish.com/2012/09/test-driven-node-js-development-with-grunt/

@DonNguyen i think parsing is only the “problem” – (a) login to website (b) get html (c) pase html (d) reponse with json / something like an external api-proxy – add a api to a website (from extern)

Duty calls, I’m off to work now – it’s 8:06am here in Melbourne

Thanks guys

Thanks Mark.

muescha, all of those steps have been properly battle tested in Node.js you should have no problems doing all those things

cheers Mark

@DonNguyen i was thinking about to move from sinatra to rails – but i think node.js can be an other idea – i like to be the response from node act as an api

I have to head off too guys. Thanks for joining us this morning.

It’s the kind of job that Node.js was meant to do

thanks Sarah

@DonNguyen you have some keywords / packages which are interesting for this to look into it deeper?

https://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom for parsing

core http module should handle logins, Express.json for serving JSON

thx a lot :-)

you’re welcome

所以……我想现在这些人都在这里，我将进行正式介绍。 乔凡尼(Giovanni)，唐(Don)和马克(Mark)是我们即将发布的Node.js Jump Start书籍(这是我们要介绍的新系列的第一本书籍)背后的团队。 谢谢您今天早上的时间。

我是SP的社区经理，我将主持会议。

每个人都对节点有什么经验？

如果您以前从未参加过这些会议之一，那么对所有人来说都是免费的。 随时提出问题，我将确保我始终专注于可能因噪音而迷失的一切。

什么是IS节点？

@暂时未通知，但在某些职位上看到了，所以想了解更多

http://nodejs.org/

你们构建了哪些正在生产的应用程序？

大一新生在这里(甚至还没有打个招呼的世界)

我现在正在从事一个相当大的项目，对任何知道如何使用Socket.IO传输Backbone.js应用程序状态的专家来说，我都有一个问题。

没什么好说的，它有其特质，但是一旦您习惯了它们，这将是一个非常愉快的编程环境

仅试验

JerryE，这是一个用于构建快速且可扩展的网络应用程序的平台。 通常用于实时网络应用

Node.js是Google V8 JavaScript引擎的包装

在node上工作了大约6个月，喜欢它！ 建立简单的聊天框站点……生产中什么也没有……所有学习

想要进入实时应用程序…

它使您可以像普通应用程序一样与系统交互

因此，Node.js不必仅限于Web应用程序

@markdalgleish很好。 我做了一些跨平台运行的小工具

@ mb4，我负责HouseFix的技术。 Node.js在技术上完成了我们想要的一切，但是不幸的是，这家初创公司因各种商业原因而决定关闭

我听过一些关于node.js的批评，并在YouTube上观看了一些视频，确定您知道我的意思吗？

我看到LinkedIn正在使用它。 是否确实为高流量站点而不是普通静态类型站点构建了这种情况？

@rettal，您指的是哪些具体批评？

我想知道是否有些专家可以谈论节点的未来……像1.0发行时我们可以期待什么？

@dmon好，由于其异步特性，您可以更轻松地处理数千个请求

@dmon，它可以用于任何站点，但在实时Web应用程序方面，其真正的竞争优势却大放异彩

@dmon Node.js可以用于静态站点，但这并没有真正发挥其优势

特别是关于事件循环以及如何让我们作为程序员来处理更多低级的东西，而这些问题已经解决了？

Node真正强大的地方在于其实时的事件驱动特性

@TJKoury我想您的问题来回需要很多，也许这是最适合论坛的问题？

好，谢谢 ：)

@DonNguyen感谢您提及，我将带您了解它：>

这是一个更笼统的问题：在客户端上重用服务器端代码的策略有哪些？

仅供参考，可以在我们的JS论坛上https://www.sitepoint.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-JavaScript-amp-jQuery询问任何Node问题。

@rettal，同样，您有关于“低级内容”的任何具体示例吗？ 我知道回调样式已经受到批评，但是有一些可用的库使该内容更像传统的编程样式

谢谢

我不会说Node.js的级别很低。 我可以看到人们可以在回调样式中挣扎

TJKoury，有一个名为dnode的软件包https://github.com/substack/dnode它具有RPC功能，可用于在客户端和服务器上共享库

尽管回调样式不是一件大事，但您在节点上的工作就越多

我想这是思考使用网络的另一种方式？ 宁可在“要求，处理和给出答案”方面进行思考

回调样式迫使您从一开始就认为异步，这是Node强大功能的来源

编码服务器/ http请求的级别低于大多数平台。

@donNguyen我一定会检查的，谢谢

对于一个n00b，它是否类似于php + apache的精简版本，但效率更高？

我想我的意思是关于node.js的非阻塞性质

@rettal我不确定我们是否了解您的要求

mb4，是的。 在PHP之类的环境中，您拥有单独的Web服务器，例如Apache。 在Node.js中，没有这种解耦。 虽然确实迫使您创建自己的服务器(少于10行)，但它也使您可以完全控制http请求响应周期

@dmon在Node中，您编写服务器

有一些库可以使标准服务器更容易构建，但是您可以使服务器更加智能

好了，apache可以自己处理node.js的事务，从而增加复杂性，但是我想回调可以帮助您吗？

我发现Node更有效地与“低级”东西集成在一起。 尝试使用PHP查看文件中的更改。

(您可以执行此操作，但是它将杀死您的CPU)

带有系统挂钩的回调具有巨大的优势，对http服务器具有低级控制也是如此。

dmon，不仅是精简版。 其他较大的差异是：前端和后端之间的单一语言，NoSQL(相对于SQL)，异步(相对于同步)。

好，谢谢，我现在明白了。 从某种意义上说，我认为它只是“另一个”像Nginx这样的Apache服务器，但显然不是：D

@rettal比您想象的要容易

作为对此感兴趣但没有经验的人。 您建议我从哪里开始？ 文章，网站和书籍？

@donNguyen好的，谢谢。 是否可以立即使用像MySQL / Postgres这样的“普通”数据库，还是添加库还是这种情况？

我认为人们看到了著名的七(或其他)生产线服务器并想到了WOW !，这是正确的，但我认为它还有很多其他功能

这是一个很好的介绍... http://book.mixu.net/

rettal，回调不用于复杂性管理，而是用于异步编程。 在Node.js中编写自己的服务器一点都不复杂

…和http://toolbox.no.de/

@suniled谢谢

这是一些博客/网站http://www.nodecloud.org/

我在学习Node.js时就读过这篇文章： http : //www.nodebeginner.org/

好，谢谢唐

dmon，可以通过软件包系统中的单个命令安装MySQL

保持密切联系……反弹……找到一个项目……然后nodeOUT

就个人而言，我从尝试使用Node解决实际问题中学到了很多东西，使自己陷入了困境。

@rettal我想您会发现Apache缺少的大多数“复杂性”或您正在从事的任何工作都不需要的东西，因此您不必管理庞大的httpd.conf或其他任何内容(如果大多数是从Apache论坛复制而来...)

会做！！ 4个新书签可阅读

您只需配置所需的内容！

另外，我建议您访问本地JS聚会，并找到Node.js专家来指导您完成基础知识

如果您对Web协议(例如http的含义等)没有很好的了解，那么这是一个非常陡峭的过程

我发现这可能是最快的最佳方式

好。 因此，我有一个为与SAP系统通信的几个站点构建的API，使用Node代替了当前的apache / php / curl设置，这会很好吗？ 流量不高，但是要让我开始进入真实的环境吗？

keller，除了必须使用Jump Start Node.js插件以外，projecteuler.net是学习任何新编程语言时的第一个资源

@markdalgleish是正确的……但是找到一个不是那么容易：)

@dmon节点非常适合API，特别是如果您使用json

dmon，这是REST API吗？

谢谢@DonNguyen

@donNguyen Errr…它输入/输出文本文件，基本上生成要发送到SAP的订单文件，以[txt]或.csv格式返回已成功下订单的回复文件(在SAP中)，缺货文件等。

似乎大多数将节点用于Web应用程序的人都使用Express框架。 我还没有找到不像越野车那样出色的示例Web应用程序。 是否可以说Node可以很好地支持特定领域的特定领域的支持技术，但是还没有成熟的Web应用程序框架来构建Node的整体，这是否公平？

@ mb4我不认为构建像rail这样的完整Web框架是Node的目标。

@ mb4 Trello是使用Node.js构建的大规模，高流量网站的一个很好的例子

dmon，Node.js可以很好地满足您的目的，但这并不是真正超越PHP的项目类型。 作为一个学习项目，它效果很好

@ mb4节点是为快速且无阻塞的应用程序而构建的(可以是网页)

哦，我不知道Trello完全在Node中。 gvvn，这也是我的印象。

这肯定是有可能的，并且Fog Creek已经说出使用Node.js可以享受多少乐趣： http : //blog.fogcreek.com/the-trello-tech-stack/

sstephenson刚刚发布了此推文，他构建了https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/1z1R100K1O3R2I1I3F43/kinect%20png%20stream.mov https://github.com/sstephenson/kinect

@ mb4我想这真的很重要。 如果要在服务器上为SEO或其他内容呈现页面，则可能要使用其他内容。 对我而言，由于我将Backbone.js用于所有内容并在客户端上呈现视图，因此它可以很好地用作数据聚合器/缓存/验证器。

@ mb4 geeklist也是一个节点应用程序。 节点可以为您构建模块，并且您可以根据需要构建应用程序

从Kinect中提取数据并显示可视化效果。 似乎人们正在使用Node开发新事物，这很酷。

服务器框架： http://expressjs.com/ ， http://towerjs.org/ ， http://railwayjs.com/ (如果你的

mb4，Express.js是一个经过良好测试的框架。 设计得更像Sinatra，而不是Rails。 我想这些错误更多是由于程序员而不是环境造成的：-)在Jump Start Node.js中，我们花费了大量时间来进行测试驱动的设计。

@ mb4如果您想构建一个快速且可扩展的应用程序，而不是带有rails(或其他框架)的整体应用程序，那将是一个很好的选择

服务器框架： http://expressjs.com/ ， http://towerjs.org/ ， http://railwayjs.com/ (如果从你的Ruby)， http://flatironjs.org/

如果您喜欢流，请尝试https://github.com/mikeal/tako

@donNguyen好的，谢谢理解

@ mb4我对Express的体验很棒。 我遇到的唯一真正的问题是存在内存泄漏的模块，而不是Web框架。

客户端： http://angularjs.org/ ， http://emberjs.com/ ， http://backbonejs.org/

@gvnn，我从来没有构建过一个整体，只有多个小应用程序。

感谢您对框架的想法，热衷于在本书发行时检出您的书。

@ mb4很好，那么节点可以是一个不错的选择……我当然建议节点用于API和数据流的处理

Node非常适合制作轻量但功能强大的应用程序

实时框架： http://derbyjs.com/ ， http://meteor.com/ ， http://www.socketstream.org/

什么是用于构建由Postgres支持的JSON API的最佳软件包？

mb4，对于小型应用程序，请访问meteor.com。 位于Node.js之上的较新的框架之一。 看一下派对应用程序的屏幕投射。 你的下巴会掉下来。

@DonNguyen我会检查一下

流星很棒，尽管我将其视为Node的单独实体

它建立在Node之上，但将其抽象化

即你不能从npm安装任意软件包

Markdalgesh，同意。 但是对于较小的单页Web应用程序，我相信Meteor确实很出色。 正如您所说的是另一种动物

我认为流星有自己的包裹管理器

@DonNguyen太神奇了，我在工作中使用Meteor构建了一个工具，用于办公室之间的实时通信

mb4，我使用https://github.com/brianc/node-postgres没问题。 普通香草Express.js适合提供JSON

@suniled是的，它有“智能套餐”

是否有人进行过Node.js与其他Web服务器性能测试？ Node.js如何在应用程序繁忙的情况下提供服务？

@nokrosis我曾经尝试做一些基准测试https://github.com/gvnn/nodenight-benchmarks

但这不是“真实”基准，只是斐波那契计算

但是它给了你一个主意……而php出奇地快

你们希望Node支持什么呢？ 痛点是什么？

@Nokrosis的价值http://zgadzaj.com/benchmarking-nodejs-basic-performance-tests-against-apache-php

我认为值得一提的是，支持或反对Node的选择应基于您要实现的目标，而不是其性能

Nokrosis，基准测试是一个非常棘手的话题，它在很大程度上取决于您正在执行的确切测试。 但是，作为一个非常广泛的概括，它通常比其他平台具有更好的基准。 绩效是其核心目标之一。

这并不是说它并不快，而是对于某些类型的应用程序，这是一个更好的解决方案

如果我想编写一个实时Web应用程序，那么Node.js是一个显而易见的选择

我认为那是我最初无法解决的问题。 它适用于某些应用程序，而不适合其他应用程序。

还https://vertxproject.wordpress.com/2012/05/09/vert-x-vs-node-js-simple-http-benchmarks/

Nokrosis，除了markdalgesh所说的之外，通常更适合于任何IO密集型(数据库，网络，磁盘)

有人喜欢流星/德比吗？

我是流星的忠实粉丝

被嘲笑了，这是一个颇有争议的基准，我建议您阅读所有回应，尤其是Isaac Schlueter的任何回应

我认为Meteor采取的这种方法有光明的前景

是的…同意

@DonNguyen我正在运行一个流量很大的媒体站点，我将帖子另存为静态html文件，并将它们与php一起包含到页面布局中。 我可以使用Node.js以更少的服务器资源更快地运行它吗？

mb4，该软件包系统非常出色，它支持许多深奥的软件和平台。 痛苦点之一是包装系统的不成熟。 因为任何人都可以释放包裹，所以您永远无法确定所获得的质量。

@markdalgleish您会说您最喜欢的两个原因是什么？

@TJKoury首先，编写具有自动数据绑定到服务器的单页应用程序变得如此容易。 没有什么比这更接近了。

@TJKoury其次，默认情况下它如何在服务器和客户端之间共享代码，这通常需要一些工作

@ mb4我想最好的方法是总是选择不断维护的软件包……最近一次推送是在一年前的软件包可能不是正确的选择。

Nokrosis，是的，但是我会说这更多是建筑性的东西，而不是平台性的东西。 不知道具体细节，我首先会说使用索引数据库比保存为静态HTML文件要快得多。

@markdalgleish谢谢

@markdalgleish @TJKoury模型-视图数据绑定http://blog.derbyjs.com/2012/04/14/our-take-on-derby-vs-meteor/

@DonNguyen我将使用Node.js和索引的MongoDB尝试该解决方案

在中间，他们谈论这些“约束”

Nokrosis，我建议您首先进行一些小型基准测试，以帮助您确定性能差异是否值得进行全面迁移的成本。

@suniled这篇文章很感动我说的是流星最大的优点和缺点之一

这就是流星创造了自己的生态系统

他们使创建应用程序并将其部署到meteor.com变得异常简单。

我没有流星或德比方面的经验，但是我对它们有很多了解，我的一些同事使用流星，而其他同事则使用流星。 似乎他们都解决了相同的问题，但有一些不同的调整

但是，当然，这是以将自身与Node社区及其所有现有模块分离的代价为代价的

但您不会说不利的一面是，“那里有自己的生态系统”

@markdalgleish再次感谢。 过去，我曾研究过不同的“端到端”解决方案，但总是以自己的B / C结束，看来它们还不够成熟。

@suniled这取决于你是谁

@markdalgleish加上……我相信流星获得了可笑的数额的资金来起步

@大约一千一百万

……那种让您怀疑他们的商业计划将会是什么……

来自stockoverflow – http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10374113/meteor-vs-derbyjs

*堆栈

我无法想象他们会单靠托管来赚钱

TJKoury他们将发布名为Galaxy的企业产品

哦好的。

@TJKoury托管流星应用

老实说，我不是这些框架的忠实拥护者，我宁愿先构建一组api，然后再构建一个使用这些api的前端应用程序

保持两层分离，让我以后有机会更改后端层，并保持相同的前端

大家好，欢迎您加入我们。 该课程大约还有15分钟的时间，因此，如果您有任何疑问，请确保您能尽快入学。 今天的专家团队是我们即将推出的Jump Start系列中第一个系列的幕后专家，该系列有关Node.js https://www.sitepoint.com/get-a-jump-start-on-web-development-and-设计/

@gvnn同意

@gvnn听到听到

@gvnn，我不喜欢所有抽象的客户机/服务器划分框架。

*这儿这儿

@gvnn那就是说，我认为像Meteor和Derby之类的事物预示着未来的事物

@markdalgleish我认为Meteor / Derby将成为新PHP

您的twitter / github处理的是什么？

node.js如何适应WebRTC技术？

@markdalgleish您说的没错，这就是帮助框架被更多受众采用的原因

但是，到最后，您只需要HTTP：p

@ mb4我的矿山适得其反

node.js是否可以很好地适合浏览器？

@suniled也许会进入ChromeOS…

@gvnn是的，Meteor使通常在Node中很难完成的事情变得异常容易，所以很多人都会被它吸引

与往常一样，不利之处是您想做的事情不完全是“流星方式”

@markdalgleish我认为，由于生态系统的原因，开发人员在进入流星方面有些犹豫……要让应用程序运行可能很简单，但是那又如何呢？

mb4，我的GitHub是nodeninja。 不幸的是，我仍然停留在90年代的Twitter上

@suniled那里有很多不同类型的开发人员。 一些开发人员只想要简单而强大的功能，这对他们来说是很多工作。

当然，这种功能是有代价的，许多其他开发人员都不希望这样

@suniled，您可以做的是将核心构建为模块，并使其与流星尽可能地分开

使您能够稍后更改框架

@markdalgleish @gvnn有趣

本次会议还剩5分钟。 有人有没有收到令人满意的答案的问题吗？

我只是在ruby / sinatra / nokogiri(mechanize)中有一个私人项目：登录网站，获取html –并退还移动html(iui)–我可以使用后端部分(登录，解析html，像json的api一样响应)与节点？ 在客户端，那么我可以使用上面链接中提到的客户端库使用此json api

幻灯片。 http://www.slideshare.net/studgeek/an-overview-of-derbyjs-and-meteorjs-for-the-nova-nodejs-meetup

@suniled您可以做的是也运行自己的npm服务器：p

@gvnn…在他们的服务器上使用Metor应用程序…

我在这里学到了很多东西，发布的链接对我很有帮助，谢谢！

muescha，该项目将非常适合Node.js。 任何与JSON消耗相关的东西都像手套一样适合

@muescha是的，肯定可以进行这种设置

@gvnn好玩！

太好了，谢谢大家！

@TJKoury可以工作…即使我建议使用http://nodejitsu.com/进行托管

@TJKoury Meteor允许您生成一个tarball，其中包含您自己托管的所有内容

@gvnn多数民众赞成在我正在努力获得我的第一个“出来壁橱”网站！

@gvnn我在玩，但是很好的建议

@gvnn，我可以在哪里跟踪您？

别担心。 感谢大家今天早上加入我们。 不要忘记，您可以很快查看Node.js。 如果您希望在发布时收到通知，则可以在此处注册https://www.sitepoint.com/get-a-jump-start-on-web-development-and-design/

@TJKoury一切皆有可能……我们可以在您房间里飞行的四轴飞行器设备中运行Web服务器

如果您想在以后的会议中收到通知，可以在这里注册https://www.facebook.com/sitepoint/app_115462065200508

Twitter上的@ mb4 gvnnrules

@markdalgleish我确实在文档中看到了这一点，但是说实话，一旦您进入项目6个月，最后要做的就是导出所有数据并重新输入，同时处理DNS注册

随意闲逛和聊天，只要您愿意–我会把房间开着

我将在今天晚些时候在sitepoint.com和jspro.com上发布成绩单

@DonNguyen @markdalgleish嗯，HTML解析使我有些头疼。 或者我可以使用css / xpath解析类似jQuery oder DOMDocument的html页面吗？

谢谢@HAWK :)

关于流星的一件事是安全性。 默认情况下，任何人都可以直接从Web浏览器更新任何内容。 这是默认设置，出于安全考虑，您实际上需要将其关闭。 一个小陷阱。

@gvnn大声笑…给我买一个四轴飞行器，我将在上面安装raspberryPI！

非常感谢Don，Mark和Giovanni今天上午给您的时间-特别是早上7点！

大声笑，现在还有很多节点开发人员剩下很多时间了；)

@tjKoury在Nodeup上有一个关于机器人的完整播客，而节点社区正在变得疯狂

@gvnn废话，我怎么没看到这个？ 谢谢你的提示。

@DonNguyen是的，只有由于默认情况下安全性处于关闭状态，才有可能使用著名的Meteor演示视频

ps…对于那些想进一步了解节点(及其神灵)的人来说http://nodeup.com/

感谢您的聊天，即使我以前从未使用过node.js，我也一直在阅读帖子和关注链接。 真的很有趣，我一定会尝试一下！

谢谢莎拉。 感谢大家的收看和一些很棒的问题

决不*

感谢大家的聊天，发现它非常有用。

谢谢，节点是webscale。

谢谢

muescha，我可能误解了您的问题，但是软件包生态系统中有HTML解析库，这使这项工作变得非常容易

如果您以前没有尝试过Node，请至少今天进行以下操作：
1)安装Node.js
2)用1行创建“ helloworld.js”：console.log(“ Hello world”);
3)从终端运行“ node helloworld”

@DonNguyen thx(解析只是其中一部分)

mb4，来自内存MongoDB是webscale，Node.js是摇滚明星技术:-)

@TJKoury http://nodecopter.com/ ;)

muescha，您的问题的另一部分是什么？

@gvnn我刚刚将自己添加到邮件列表中！

谢谢大家，爆炸了。

好的，谢谢大家……值班电话，上班时间(墨尔本刚刚开始的一天)

谢谢大家，希望我至少有所帮助

感谢您的提示！

感谢大家！

如果有人想问我什么，请在Twitter上认识我

我的句柄是@markdalgleish

@gvnn有时间回家这里！

多谢你们。 我将待一会儿，以防我们错过任何事情。

当然可以提供有关节点用法的有趣见解:)

还有很多想法

有人需要弄清楚如何将每天的可用时间加倍；)

我认为解析仅是“问题” –(a)登录网站(b)获取html(c)pase html(d)用json响应/类似于外部api-proxy –将api添加到网站(来自extern) )

我最近还写了这篇博客文章，其中有些人可能会发现创建Node模块入门很有帮助：

markdalgleish.com/2012/09/test-driven-node-js-development-with-grunt/

@DonNguyen i think parsing is only the “problem” – (a) login to website (b) get html (c) pase html (d) reponse with json / something like an external api-proxy – add a api to a website (from extern)

Duty calls, I'm off to work now – it's 8:06am here in Melbourne

Thanks guys

Thanks Mark.

muescha, all of those steps have been properly battle tested in Node.js you should have no problems doing all those things

cheers Mark

@DonNguyen i was thinking about to move from sinatra to rails – but i think node.js can be an other idea – i like to be the response from node act as an api

I have to head off too guys. Thanks for joining us this morning.

It's the kind of job that Node.js was meant to do

thanks Sarah

@DonNguyen you have some keywords / packages which are interesting for this to look into it deeper?

https://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom for parsing

core http module should handle logins, Express.json for serving JSON

thx a lot :-)

别客气